What Makes a Healthy Biz Partnership? With Guests Melissa April and Katherine Blanco

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This is no halos here hosted by Jen Lang and Jane

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Stark, the place to inspire a change in your consciousness to

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elevate the world. We're to heart centered business owners

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nourishing our inner rebels while growing our respective

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businesses.

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No halos here is the result of bringing together an

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opera singer turn spiritual mentor and a marketing

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professional turned well being coached to meditate daily.

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Together we unite physical, mental, emotional and spiritual

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energies into a powerful presence to lead heal and

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inspire. We love exploring the shadowed edges of life, the

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universe and beyond through honest and thought provoking

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conversations. Let's dive in.

Jen Lang: 00:00:48

Hi, everybody, and welcome back to another episode

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of no halos here with Jen Lang and Jane Stark. This week we

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have some really fantastic and fun guests. We have this

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podcasting duo powerhouse, awesome women of Melissa April

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and Catherine Blanco. They have a podcast called The Yoni codes.

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I'm going to introduce each of them individually, and then

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we're all gonna like have a great conversation about awesome

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things, which I hope that you will hear shortly. So I don't

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know anything else to add right now. Jan. Go for it. Okay, so,

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Melissa April is a rebirth guide and transformational soul coach,

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she holds space for women to reclaim their feminine essence

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and breathe magic into their sacred work. She lives in

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Vancouver with her 15 month old twins and the love of her life

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of 16 years. Thank you, Melissa for being here. And Catherine

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Blanco is a birth keeper and childbirth educator. She is

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called to be a beacon of light for others to find their way

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back to their innate wisdom and sovereignty. Her practice is

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rooted in supporting women navigating all facets of their

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childbearing years, both as an online mentor and an in person

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guide. She lives on the Sunshine Coast BC with her beloved over

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20 years and therefore radiant children. welcome Melissa and

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Catherine.

Melissa April: 00:02:10

Thank you so much for having us. We're so happy to

Melissa April: 00:02:12

be here. Yeah.

Jen Lang: 00:02:14

So great. Yeah. Okay, Jane, take it away. What are we

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talking about today?

Jane Stark: 00:02:20

Oh, this we actually so Jen and I were guests on

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Catherine and Melissa's podcast last week we recorded together.

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And it was such a powerful conversation that Jen and I have

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really been sort of unpacking it more in processing parts of it,

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that we wanted to bring it to our podcast and kind of the

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extension. So we're not going to have the same discussions. But

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we're gonna kind of extend from that. And Katherine, and

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Melissa, you guys really asked us some really, really good

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questions that helped us unpack a little bit more around Jen and

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I's relationship and business partnership and how we sort of

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came to be and it's got us really thinking and talking a

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lot about relationships, but specifically, female

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relationships. And what do healthy female relationships

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look like? How does that play out in our life, whether that's

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in business, just friendship, all the different facets. So

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that's sort of the broad, sorry, the broad topic that we want to

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hop into today, but before we go there, I would love to have you

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guys share a little bit more about the work that you do both

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individually and together with your podcast, and perhaps other

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things that you might be working on together. I'm not sure

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there's things but do you want to maybe start you guys pick

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whoever wants to start here and just sort of share a little bit

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more about that and how you came to be?

Katherine Blanco: 00:03:45

Thank you, Jane. I'll go first. This is

Katherine Blanco: 00:03:47

Catherine speaking. Um, so in my intro, I, it's very simplified.

Katherine Blanco: 00:03:55

I'm a birth keeper and a birth educator. But I feel that my

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work is so much more in depth than than just holding space at

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women's births. And part of my call in this lifetime is to help

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women tap in with their innate wisdom, with their inner knowing

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of how, how birth can actually be a transformational time in

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their lives. So my birth education goes beyond the

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anatomy, which I also really nerd out about. I love speaking

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to women's bodies, our bodies are amazing, and how they

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support us in childbirth but also the energetics and, and the

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transformational experience of giving birth to new life and how

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it's an opportunity for us to claim a rebirth of ourselves as

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well.

Jen Lang: 00:04:55

That's super powerful. Yeah. Having the being the only

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person here Who has not actually birth to a child? Physically? i

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Yeah, it's powerful. I have the utmost respect, I saw my sister

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birth her second child, and it was one of the most moving and

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powerful experiences of my life. It was a beautiful, beautiful

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thing to witness. Melissa,

Katherine Blanco: 00:05:16

when I Oh, sorry. Yeah, that's okay. I was

Katherine Blanco: 00:05:19

just gonna add, I feel that our western culture and, and perhaps

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more all over the world, in terms of our modern times, is

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really taken birth into the medical space. And, of course,

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there are in instances where birth doesn't need to be a

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medical event. But I would say that the majority of the time

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birth unfolds beautifully, unhindered, and, and can be in

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the the home environment for most of us. And that is, that is

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sort of my realm of geniuses is bringing people back to, to the

Katherine Blanco: 00:05:58

bare bones, or the root of giving birth.

Jane Stark: 00:06:03

I'm curious to know, did you always feel this was

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sort of your calling like you've had you have four children? Was

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this sort of there for you before even beginning that

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journey? Or is this something that's grown out of having your

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own?

Katherine Blanco: 00:06:19

That's a wonderful question. So when I

Katherine Blanco: 00:06:21

was 18 years old, and sort of thinking about the my life path,

Katherine Blanco: 00:06:26

and I had this conversation with my father, who's also one of my

Katherine Blanco: 00:06:30

best friends, and he's like, What are you? What are you

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feeling into for your, for your future? And I told him like,

Katherine Blanco: 00:06:39

well, I just, I really know that I want to be a mom. I knew I

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knew that that was a part of my purpose. And I even told him,

Katherine Blanco: 00:06:48

I'm like, I feel that becoming a mother is going to lead me to my

Katherine Blanco: 00:06:52

life purpose. And that is exactly what happened. I was

Katherine Blanco: 00:06:56

also 18 When I started dating my now husband, and we had our

Katherine Blanco: 00:07:01

first child quite young. And it was after her birth, and

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speaking to my experience, and how empowering and beautiful and

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well, how it unfolded, I realized that, oh, there is

Katherine Blanco: 00:07:18

something here for me. And this is what I'm here to do is to to

Katherine Blanco: 00:07:22

help women have have the same not the same experience, but to

Katherine Blanco: 00:07:27

feel into their power when it comes to their childbirth

Katherine Blanco: 00:07:30

experience. Awesome.

Jane Stark: 00:07:34

Thanks for sharing that.

Jen Lang: 00:07:38

We hear more. But yeah, let's

Jane Stark: 00:07:40

come back to that. Let's hear your story.

Melissa April: 00:07:44

Ah, well, I just want to second everything

Melissa April: 00:07:47

Catherine was saying because she was my my doula. She's my birth

Melissa April: 00:07:50

keeper, one of them. And yeah, I'm sure we'll dive into it

Melissa April: 00:07:53

more. But birth has become such a big part of my life and the

Melissa April: 00:08:00

work that I do in in more of a cosmic sense around rebirth and

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how we die so much in this lifetime to become who more of

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who we are. And this process started before I became

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pregnant, it started, really, when I decided that yeah, we

Melissa April: 00:08:18

wanted to start a family. And it took us several years to do

Melissa April: 00:08:21

that. But I entered into this intentional space of rebirth.

Melissa April: 00:08:26

And so now how I support my clients, I started off as a

Melissa April: 00:08:30

health coach and kind of morphed into life coaching and to

Melissa April: 00:08:34

business coaching and then started to pull in spiritual

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subtle realms into my work. I feel like this is so similar to

Melissa April: 00:08:44

Jane what you were sharing. Yes, yeah. And my whole My whole life

Melissa April: 00:08:50

has been about figuring out like, my purpose. What is my

Melissa April: 00:08:53

purpose? What are my beauty, my suppose? into the world? What

Melissa April: 00:08:56

are my gifts? I'm

Jane Stark: 00:08:58

sorry, are you? Are you we talked last week briefly,

Jane Stark: 00:09:01

too, but human designing and take us off for a second here.

Jane Stark: 00:09:03

But are you at three, five? Yeah, that you? That's why I'm

Jane Stark: 00:09:06

three five as well. You're a manifesting generator, right.

Jane Stark: 00:09:08

I'm Yeah, but yeah, that's 359. Yeah. And that's probably where

Jane Stark: 00:09:12

we have that similar. Oh, yeah. Anyway, sorry.

Melissa April: 00:09:15

Yeah. No, it's amazing. So I feel like I'm,

Melissa April: 00:09:18

I've just like accepted now that my work will continue to evolve

Melissa April: 00:09:22

as I continue to evolve, and I don't know where I will be in 10

Melissa April: 00:09:26

years, but I'm excited for it. Anyways, so. Now, you know,

Melissa April: 00:09:32

really what I work with women around is, people always come to

Melissa April: 00:09:35

me wanting to be like literally every person wanting to be seen

Melissa April: 00:09:39

and heard. I just want to feel seen and heard. I want to feel

Melissa April: 00:09:42

like I can express myself the way that I want to. I work with

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women who they have a gift, they have a passion, they have a

Melissa April: 00:09:49

medicine to bring the world and they're doing it but they are

Melissa April: 00:09:53

holding themselves back in some way then they know it and they

Melissa April: 00:09:57

can feel it and they can sense it and they're sick and tired of

Melissa April: 00:09:59

it. And what I do is I help women bridge that gap, I help

Melissa April: 00:10:04

them close it so that they can walk over to what they actually

Melissa April: 00:10:08

want with ease. And that is the rebirth. That is the shedding

Melissa April: 00:10:13

the molting and the opening to what is actually theirs because

Melissa April: 00:10:19

they are embracing all of who they are. So I work, I love

Melissa April: 00:10:25

transfer, I'm trained in transforming transformational

Melissa April: 00:10:28

coaching. And so I love that aspect. But I bring in the

Melissa April: 00:10:32

Akashic records I bring in I'm a channeler of Christ

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consciousness. I love working in ceremony, I weave that into all

Melissa April: 00:10:40

of my work. So it's dynamic and beautiful. And yeah, that's what

Melissa April: 00:10:47

I do.

Jen Lang: 00:10:48

Beautiful. Oh, we have so many cross correlations, I

Jen Lang: 00:10:52

think between the four of us in so many ways that we work or

Jen Lang: 00:10:55

interact or work with clients or the way our gifts Express.

Melissa April: 00:11:02

Yeah, yeah, I think so. We, we just like, hit

Melissa April: 00:11:05

it off. We get on the calls. And we're like,

Jane Stark: 00:11:07

Yeah, let's talk forever. Can you guys now okay,

Jane Stark: 00:11:11

you both kind of give it a bit of your own little glimpse into

Jane Stark: 00:11:14

your own stuff, your own story, stuff. Your own story, how you

Jane Stark: 00:11:20

alluded to it a little bit there, Melissa, but how did you

Jane Stark: 00:11:22

guys kind of come to be a duo? And what is that became like for

Jane Stark: 00:11:26

you? Yeah. So

Melissa April: 00:11:30

Katherine, and I met when I, well, we actually

Melissa April: 00:11:33

met before I was pregnant, we didn't know then, that we were

Melissa April: 00:11:38

going to work together. But we were in a Kundalini dance

Melissa April: 00:11:43

program together. And so we dance together, we don't speak

Melissa April: 00:11:46

we speak only at the beginning and at the end when we're

Melissa April: 00:11:50

integrating. And so we dance together. And it ended up

Melissa April: 00:11:56

opening up this whole situation where I hired a birth keeper,

Melissa April: 00:12:03

who was also in that dance class, who was very good friends

Melissa April: 00:12:06

and not not coworkers, but you know, they they work together.

Melissa April: 00:12:14

Yes, yes, that's it. Thank you. That's the word. And because I

Melissa April: 00:12:19

was moving out of the Vancouver area, Jasmine had brought on

Melissa April: 00:12:23

Catherine and so Catherine and I met each other. I think I was

Melissa April: 00:12:28

about six months pregnant, maybe five months, I can't remember

Melissa April: 00:12:31

quite how much how far along I was. But it was, I feel like we

Melissa April: 00:12:36

met each other and we got to know each other in the most

Melissa April: 00:12:39

beautiful way. And I feel like this is bins are almost like a

Melissa April: 00:12:42

redefining moment. For me. And I think I could probably speak for

Melissa April: 00:12:45

Katherine as well, in how we want to have female

Melissa April: 00:12:50

relationships, how we want to interact and how we want to get

Melissa April: 00:12:53

to know each other because I was in the most vulnerable state of

Melissa April: 00:12:58

my entire life. And Catherine witnessed me through that whole

Melissa April: 00:13:05

that whole situation through pregnancy through the birth of

Melissa April: 00:13:08

my twins, all the way 10 months postpartum, we had the most

Melissa April: 00:13:12

incredible conversations that like I'm full body chills, just

Melissa April: 00:13:17

like thinking about the connection that we created. And

Melissa April: 00:13:20

it was just kind of like yeah, why are we not recording

Melissa April: 00:13:23

conversations I feel selfish of us to, to not to not be sharing

Melissa April: 00:13:28

this and opening it up and and yeah, like opening this dialogue

Melissa April: 00:13:34

for more more of us to be in conversation about this, these

Melissa April: 00:13:38

quiet conversations that we have together, why are we not having

Melissa April: 00:13:41

them as a bigger collective, spreading that like, Goddess

Melissa April: 00:13:47

energy through the world that's very much needed right now.

Katherine Blanco: 00:13:51

And I have to say, like Melissa has been

Katherine Blanco: 00:13:55

someone in my life who's helped me define who I want to continue

Katherine Blanco: 00:14:02

to work with, because she really went into the work that I really

Katherine Blanco: 00:14:06

desire to help women through in pregnancy which is also bringing

Katherine Blanco: 00:14:12

in the shadow side of of the experience and really walking

Katherine Blanco: 00:14:17

through that in an embodied way. And so that was really exciting

Katherine Blanco: 00:14:21

as well for me to work with a soul client in that way and to

Katherine Blanco: 00:14:27

have that experience just expand our relationship and go beyond

Katherine Blanco: 00:14:33

beyond are just like working client birth deeper relationship

Katherine Blanco: 00:14:38

into something deeper. And but I think it's also like, everyone

Katherine Blanco: 00:14:43

should have a friend that's a transformational coach because

Katherine Blanco: 00:14:49

so true, because that's what's gonna happen is they're gonna

Katherine Blanco: 00:14:52

help you expand and become more and more of who you really are.

Melissa April: 00:14:59

Yeah, I feel like that's what it is, right? It's,

Melissa April: 00:15:02

I mean, speaking of female relationships, it's like I feel

Melissa April: 00:15:05

that our relationship has been one where in the process of

Melissa April: 00:15:10

getting to know each other become more of who I have always

Melissa April: 00:15:15

been meant to be in the world. And I think that's a really

Melissa April: 00:15:20

special a sacred gift that you got to hold close to you and and

Melissa April: 00:15:27

realize that that's, that's what it's meant to be like. I mean,

Melissa April: 00:15:30

we're also meant to have conflict of course, and but it's

Melissa April: 00:15:34

how we move through that which Katherine and I have also had to

Melissa April: 00:15:37

navigate. And so anyways, it's it's like rewriting a whole new

Melissa April: 00:15:42

paradigm, especially as female leaders in the world and

Melissa April: 00:15:48

healers. Thank you. Yeah,

Jen Lang: 00:15:52

thank you for that. It's, I love how you described

Jen Lang: 00:15:55

it as is defining this new paradigm of what from an

Jen Lang: 00:15:58

unrelated but healthy feminine relationships are and can be,

Jen Lang: 00:16:03

and it's taking it less away from quote, unquote, should be

Jen Lang: 00:16:07

because obviously, should still implies a filter of what

Jen Lang: 00:16:11

someone's expectation of what that might be. Where, when you

Jen Lang: 00:16:15

look at the potential of what a healthy and powerful and

Jen Lang: 00:16:19

uplifting, feminine relationship, whether it's

Jen Lang: 00:16:22

friendship and business or business on its own, or

Jen Lang: 00:16:26

workplace colleagues, all of those definitions and parameters

Jen Lang: 00:16:33

are in place for a reason. And you can go further, and that

Jen Lang: 00:16:39

that growth happens at the edges. So then when we honor,

Jen Lang: 00:16:42

like you said, there, there are moments of conflict. But it's

Jen Lang: 00:16:46

how we move through that conflict that can strengthen and

Jen Lang: 00:16:50

further expand that relationship. I think too often

Jen Lang: 00:16:53

we're not shown a, we're not shown or modeled away, that

Jen Lang: 00:16:57

moves through conflict in a way that's productive. That's

Jen Lang: 00:17:03

conflict based on you know, we've seen it backstabbing and

Jen Lang: 00:17:07

down talking or, you know, gossip, and it's so it's just so

Jen Lang: 00:17:15

poisonous. It's like poisonous, it just, it takes root, and then

Jen Lang: 00:17:20

it grows and expands. It's passed on through generations,

Jen Lang: 00:17:24

it gets perpetuated and perpetuated. And there's a

Jen Lang: 00:17:28

better way to move forward. And especially when we're talking

Jen Lang: 00:17:32

about expanding and embracing this divine feminine energy that

Jen Lang: 00:17:35

has been suppressed in us for so long, when we let go of that

Jen Lang: 00:17:39

poison and let go and just like you can neutralize it, just move

Jen Lang: 00:17:43

past it and move through it. You don't have to sit there with a

Jen Lang: 00:17:46

counter poison or counter cure. You just neutralize it and move

Jen Lang: 00:17:50

move forward.

Katherine Blanco: 00:17:52

And we've even found that speaking our truth

Katherine Blanco: 00:17:58

and being honest with one another, even if it's

Katherine Blanco: 00:18:00

uncomfortable has only deepened our relationship rather than

Katherine Blanco: 00:18:05

pulled us apart. It's like we keep going into a deeper layer

Jane Stark: 00:18:15

nobody our audience can't see but we have a little

Jane Stark: 00:18:18

that we have. Catherine has groans Yeah.

Melissa April: 00:18:27

If you ever tuned into the Yoni codes, she's she's

Melissa April: 00:18:30

our third co host. Little Miss Cora.

Jen Lang: 00:18:35

Cora, the co host lover. Yes. Awesome. Yeah,

Jen Lang: 00:18:40

exactly. She's the co host here today. So it's all good. It's

Jen Lang: 00:18:44

all good. So then, can you talk a little talk to speak to you a

Jen Lang: 00:18:49

little bit about what moving through those times of conflicts

Jen Lang: 00:18:53

looks like for each of you, maybe Melissa? Well, Catherine's

Jen Lang: 00:18:56

occupied, you can

Melissa April: 00:18:59

see in this relationship,

Jen Lang: 00:19:01

and yeah, it specifically in your in your

Jen Lang: 00:19:03

relationship, your business partnership or your co hosting?

Jen Lang: 00:19:06

How would you define that?

Melissa April: 00:19:11

Well, how do we move through the conflict? I

Melissa April: 00:19:15

think it's, you know, not letting it fester. It's trusting

Melissa April: 00:19:22

that I can be in my truth and that Catherine is strong enough

Melissa April: 00:19:27

to hold that. Or that Catherine can be in her truth and that I'm

Melissa April: 00:19:30

strong enough to hold that. Even if maybe I don't agree, or she

Melissa April: 00:19:36

doesn't agree, like we are able to. We're able to bring that to

Melissa April: 00:19:42

each other. And that really only came with like, the first time

Melissa April: 00:19:46

you have a conflict. You have to just see how it goes. Right. And

Melissa April: 00:19:51

I think that's been a big learning. For so many women is

Melissa April: 00:19:55

like we're undoing this narrative of being scared to

Melissa April: 00:19:59

speak our truth. With being scared to have a boundary being

Melissa April: 00:20:01

scared to hold ourselves in our own power, and sorry, my audio

Melissa April: 00:20:10

just went a little weird. Can you hear me stuff? Yeah, yeah,

Melissa April: 00:20:12

we

Jen Lang: 00:20:12

can hear you fine.

Melissa April: 00:20:14

Okay, there we go. So yeah, being able to hold

Melissa April: 00:20:17

ourselves in our own power and, and regardless of what the other

Melissa April: 00:20:21

person does if the other person can't handle it, that's their,

Melissa April: 00:20:25

that's theirs? And how and can we trust that they can be in

Melissa April: 00:20:33

their own energy, even if it's not what we want them to, even

Melissa April: 00:20:36

if they're not responding in the way that we want them to

Melissa April: 00:20:38

respond. And so yeah, Catherine had to step out for just a

Melissa April: 00:20:43

minute. But you know, the first time we had something, it was

Melissa April: 00:20:46

like something so small. And I like I like when Catherine

Melissa April: 00:20:52

actually speaks to it. She does such a beautiful job, I'm just

Melissa April: 00:20:56

telling them about the first time we had her. We had a little

Melissa April: 00:21:00

thing come up. And it was something that she had said that

Melissa April: 00:21:03

it hurt my feelings a little bit. And I don't, for the life

Melissa April: 00:21:07

of me even remember what it was. But I remember thinking like,

Melissa April: 00:21:12

oh, unless it's not a big deal. Like, you know, Katherine's

Melissa April: 00:21:15

heart, like, she would never mean anything to hurt you, like,

Melissa April: 00:21:18

just leave it, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. And she was at

Melissa April: 00:21:21

my house, postpartum, do lying, and supporting me, my family,

Melissa April: 00:21:26

and she's with her. Anyways, I had to, I stepped out for an

Melissa April: 00:21:29

errand and I was just thinking about it and thinking about it.

Melissa April: 00:21:32

And like I do not, I just remember thinking in the car,

Melissa April: 00:21:35

like, I cannot let this sit and fester. Like I can't I will not

Melissa April: 00:21:40

risk the relationship that we are creating right now. And the

Melissa April: 00:21:46

even just as a, you know, my doula and a client, like, that

Melissa April: 00:21:50

was so important to me. And then but also the personal

Melissa April: 00:21:54

relationship that was biting from that. And so I was like,

Melissa April: 00:21:57

Okay, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna bring it up. I'm just gonna say

Melissa April: 00:21:58

something. And so I, I came home, and I'm just like, I just

Melissa April: 00:22:04

wanted to like, remember that comment? You did, he said, and

Melissa April: 00:22:09

that, that didn't feel good for me to receive. And it was

Melissa April: 00:22:13

actually the best thing that I think ever happened for our

Melissa April: 00:22:15

relationship. Because

Katherine Blanco: 00:22:17

it was so it's like, one of the most moving

Katherine Blanco: 00:22:21

experiences. It sounds so silly, but it was one of the most

Katherine Blanco: 00:22:24

moving experiences I've had in a friendship before because I have

Katherine Blanco: 00:22:30

been known to make weird jokes, our say things and then be like,

Katherine Blanco: 00:22:38

where did that come from? Like that. Like, I shouldn't have

Katherine Blanco: 00:22:41

said that. Oh, shit, like, where's that landed, and then

Katherine Blanco: 00:22:48

like, Okay, move along. But, and then perhaps hurt people, but

Katherine Blanco: 00:22:55

not recognize it or realized it until later. So for her to call

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:00

me out on it, or actually, it didn't even feel like she was

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:03

calling me out. It felt like she was calling me in. Because I was

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:09

so touched, actually, I'm tearing up just talking about it

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:13

right now, because I burst into tears. And I was like, thank

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:18

you. I am so sorry, that was really inappropriate. But I

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:24

don't know where that came from. And I take full responsibility

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:28

that I should have thought before speaking. And I do not

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:33

want to damage our relationship is bashley are biting

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:38

friendship. And I was so honored that she would respect me enough

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:44

to call me in and say that I had hurt her. Rather than letting it

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:49

be something between us that would make her push me away over

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:53

time. And it shifted. I feel like it shifted our dynamic

Katherine Blanco: 00:23:58

pretty much immediately. And we became so much closer after

Katherine Blanco: 00:24:02

that. And I started sharing things with her and outside of

Katherine Blanco: 00:24:07

our friendship. But I felt like I could speak more honestly with

Katherine Blanco: 00:24:12

her about things that were going on in my life. And it seemed

Katherine Blanco: 00:24:15

risk reciprocal back. And it actually opened up this whole

Katherine Blanco: 00:24:19

new dynamic between us it was really really powerful. And it

Katherine Blanco: 00:24:23

was also so simple.

Melissa April: 00:24:25

And there's probably just even you talking

Melissa April: 00:24:27

about I'm like, we probably wouldn't have a podcast today

Melissa April: 00:24:31

together and be doing the work in the world that we are doing,

Melissa April: 00:24:34

if we didn't have that one situation to move through. But I

Melissa April: 00:24:40

was like flabbergasted why she responded the way that she did

Melissa April: 00:24:44

because so often I have held my tongue. I have been so flimsy

Melissa April: 00:24:48

with my boundaries. I have been so scared to say anything

Melissa April: 00:24:53

because I've lost friendships from doing so. My and you know,

Melissa April: 00:24:57

when I tried to do it from the most loving way possible So to

Melissa April: 00:25:00

have somebody respond in that way was like, what is happening?

Melissa April: 00:25:06

This is like,

Jane Stark: 00:25:08

Yeah, this is so powerful. And that's like I just

Jane Stark: 00:25:13

listening to you guys share that story. To me, I'm like, wow,

Jane Stark: 00:25:16

that takes so much. It takes courage, it takes trust, and it

Jane Stark: 00:25:19

takes vulnerability, right? Like, yeah, we've I think we've

Jane Stark: 00:25:23

maybe I have it all, but I know I've had those experiences to

Jane Stark: 00:25:26

where I've tried to speak up, and it wasn't able to be

Jane Stark: 00:25:29

received in that way. And then, yeah, it destroys relationships,

Jane Stark: 00:25:33

or it causes more tension or something, so, so even having

Jane Stark: 00:25:38

the courage to do it, and not fully knowing how the other

Jane Stark: 00:25:42

person's gonna respond. And also having that trust or faith

Jane Stark: 00:25:46

perhaps that they will be able to hold space for it. And look

Jane Stark: 00:25:51

at how beautiful that is, and what you guys have shared for

Jane Stark: 00:25:54

you guys, how that turned out. Like, and, you know, maybe

Jane Stark: 00:25:59

there's something to unpack there in terms of you know,

Jane Stark: 00:26:04

Catherine, how you were able to be in that space, or, you know,

Jane Stark: 00:26:09

was there work or healing that had been done, because, you

Jane Stark: 00:26:12

know, again, so much of it depends on where the other

Jane Stark: 00:26:14

person is at. With that, but you know, I think Jen and I've had

Jane Stark: 00:26:19

those experiences to where we've been able to, again, it's that

Jane Stark: 00:26:22

just being able to be so vulnerable with another person.

Jane Stark: 00:26:27

And it but when you can do that, when the other person can hold

Jane Stark: 00:26:29

that space, it's like, to me, that's just where the depth is,

Jane Stark: 00:26:34

and where you can go to that whole new level of relationship.

Melissa April: 00:26:39

Meaning when you think about it, it's almost,

Melissa April: 00:26:42

it's almost like these little gifts, actually, these little

Melissa April: 00:26:45

conflicts that these little bumps in the road are little

Melissa April: 00:26:49

gifts, because they're opportunities to reinforce,

Melissa April: 00:26:52

strengthen and take your relationship to this whole other

Melissa April: 00:26:57

level. And what a gift that is. And it's deeply healing on many,

Melissa April: 00:27:06

many levels. Because, you know, culturally, for 1000s of years,

Melissa April: 00:27:11

we have been pinned against each other, we don't trust each other

Melissa April: 00:27:14

we don't. It's the which wound, it's the, you know, wounded,

Melissa April: 00:27:17

feminine, just blaring, right, and we're scared to be who we

Melissa April: 00:27:22

are, we're scared to share our truth. And I think as long as

Melissa April: 00:27:26

we're tiptoeing around each other, and not saying the things

Melissa April: 00:27:28

that we mean to say, and skirting around the things that

Melissa April: 00:27:32

we want, and that we want in our relationships, and from the

Melissa April: 00:27:37

people in our life. We're not going to, it's not going to get

Melissa April: 00:27:41

anywhere, we're just gonna keep falling into, I think the traps

Melissa April: 00:27:45

of comparison, judgment and gossip, and these are hurting

Melissa April: 00:27:49

each other. Yeah.

Jane Stark: 00:27:52

So, Catherine, I'm curious, how do you get to that

Jane Stark: 00:27:55

place? How do you get to that space of being able to receive

Jane Stark: 00:28:00

what Melissa shared?

Katherine Blanco: 00:28:04

That's a really good question. And I feel

Katherine Blanco: 00:28:13

that it requires a level of humility from Me, too. And self

Katherine Blanco: 00:28:22

awareness. And that regardless of how, how I thought what I

Katherine Blanco: 00:28:30

said would land. Like, my intentions, obviously, were not

Katherine Blanco: 00:28:36

to hurt Melissa. But the impact did. So it was me taking

Katherine Blanco: 00:28:43

responsibility for the impact of my words, rather than going into

Katherine Blanco: 00:28:50

that space of put my intentions. Were good. Right. So I, yeah, I

Katherine Blanco: 00:29:00

took responsibility for how, for what my for what I said, and how

Katherine Blanco: 00:29:06

it impacted her. And it was also a wake up call for me to

Katherine Blanco: 00:29:14

recognize how much Melissa meant to me. Because friendship, yeah.

Katherine Blanco: 00:29:21

And the friendship and yeah, and it was pretty quick. It was a

Katherine Blanco: 00:29:29

pretty quick turnaround to, to, for me in that moment to

Katherine Blanco: 00:29:34

recognize the impact of my words and to Yeah, and I took the

Katherine Blanco: 00:29:41

lesson right away and I'm, and I feel like the the process of

Katherine Blanco: 00:29:47

getting to this place has been a long journey, because I have

Katherine Blanco: 00:29:53

experienced friendships where I have spoken up about something

Katherine Blanco: 00:29:56

that has hurt me and and it hasn't landed And it's, it's

Katherine Blanco: 00:30:02

damaged the friendship to a point where it's not in a place

Katherine Blanco: 00:30:07

of being able to be repaired and, or the the other way around

Katherine Blanco: 00:30:13

where I've said something, and instead of them coming back and

Katherine Blanco: 00:30:16

saying, hey, you've hurt me do the whole, like ghosting thing.

Katherine Blanco: 00:30:22

You know, I'm speaking to a lot of my friendships and my 20s.

Katherine Blanco: 00:30:25

And being pretty dysfunctional with with women. Yeah.

Jen Lang: 00:30:30

That's suffering in silence. Peace is really big, I

Jen Lang: 00:30:32

think for, for women and like, and for men, as well. But I

Jen Lang: 00:30:36

think more so for women, because we are not modeled how to

Jen Lang: 00:30:40

express our needs effectively, to have vulnerable conversations

Jen Lang: 00:30:45

that are grounded in solid, foundational experience rather,

Jen Lang: 00:30:53

like, you know how highly emotional responses can pull you

Jen Lang: 00:30:58

on the other person into another highly emotional response. And

Jen Lang: 00:31:01

then it just compounds and builds and spirals up, and then

Jen Lang: 00:31:03

all of a sudden, it becomes, you know, girl fight. And it's, yes,

Jen Lang: 00:31:10

we need to have those experiences so that we kind of

Jen Lang: 00:31:13

know what we don't want. And then our response to that might

Jen Lang: 00:31:16

just be Well, I'm not going to say anything, because I don't

Jen Lang: 00:31:19

want to have that experience again, rather than being able to

Jen Lang: 00:31:22

talk about the experience or, or work through it with a trusted

Jen Lang: 00:31:28

person, professional or otherwise, or coach. And

Jen Lang: 00:31:33

solidify those communication skills in a way that allow you

Jen Lang: 00:31:37

to be strong enough and present enough to hear the other person

Jen Lang: 00:31:41

but not take it on personally. Yeah. That's so powerful. So

Jen Lang: 00:31:46

then how would that you talked about that in your both of your

Jen Lang: 00:31:50

examples? I'm thinking for our listeners, who maybe don't

Jen Lang: 00:31:56

necessarily have a coaching background, like all four of us

Jen Lang: 00:31:59

do? How might that look? If you haven't had a coaching

Jen Lang: 00:32:04

background? It might. I know that for me, before I got into

Jen Lang: 00:32:09

my business world and my coaching space for me that would

Jen Lang: 00:32:12

often show up as resentment or feeling resentful, or bitter, or

Jen Lang: 00:32:18

being angry, but not being able to express that or tell the

Jen Lang: 00:32:21

other person or taking it out, I would take out physical

Jen Lang: 00:32:24

activity, but even then, that's still kernel still lives inside.

Jen Lang: 00:32:28

How How does that show up? You think Bridgette you see in other

Jen Lang: 00:32:31

people or other clients?

Katherine Blanco: 00:32:34

Well, I could have, I could have easily, like,

Katherine Blanco: 00:32:37

from my perspective, in this situation, I could have easily

Katherine Blanco: 00:32:40

gotten defensive and went into that place of not taking

Katherine Blanco: 00:32:44

responsibility and, and blamed Melissa for being too sensitive,

Katherine Blanco: 00:32:49

or Oh, I didn't mean it that way. Don't you know who I am?

Katherine Blanco: 00:32:54

We've been friends for years. Like I've been working with you

Katherine Blanco: 00:32:57

for a year. Of course, that was a joke. Like, you know, like, I

Katherine Blanco: 00:32:59

could have easily gone into that rather than honoring her

Katherine Blanco: 00:33:02

feelings and honoring that I made a mistake. And so I think

Katherine Blanco: 00:33:08

that would have been sort of a an old an old default reaction,

Katherine Blanco: 00:33:15

rather than a more centered response that I ended up moving

Katherine Blanco: 00:33:20

into.

Jane Stark: 00:33:21

And I think from like, like a wounded response,

Jane Stark: 00:33:24

right, but not wounded. I mean, we all I think culturally, grow

Jane Stark: 00:33:29

up with some of that wounding. I mean, think about, like, as Jen

Jane Stark: 00:33:32

was talking about, when you were talking about girl fights, the

Jane Stark: 00:33:35

word cat fight came to mind, right? Remember, you don't hear

Jane Stark: 00:33:38

that term as much anymore. But I certainly remember like that

Jane Stark: 00:33:41

term being thrown around a lot when I was growing up. Or, you

Jane Stark: 00:33:45

know, when I was in the corporate world, this kind of

Jane Stark: 00:33:47

like, you got to be a bitch to get to the top. Like, we're

Jane Stark: 00:33:51

totally conditioned. Go, Melissa, she's just had

Melissa April: 00:33:57

when you said cat fight, and how that was like,

Melissa April: 00:34:00

you know, a word we throw around a lot. I'm like, and it's also

Melissa April: 00:34:02

something that used to be a turn on for the guys like, yes, like

Melissa April: 00:34:08

to see the girls having a cat fight. So, so whatever

Jen Lang: 00:34:13

becomes sexualized, somebody can sexualized

Melissa April: 00:34:16

and so like, I'm okay. We do certain things as

Melissa April: 00:34:22

women when we're, you know, we grew up in a patriarchal

Melissa April: 00:34:25

society. And we fall into these ways of sexualizing ourself in

Melissa April: 00:34:32

order to get ahead or like I need to get in the fight or I

Melissa April: 00:34:35

need to do this I need to do that so that I can be accepted.

Melissa April: 00:34:40

I don't know be part of this barbaric society.

Jane Stark: 00:34:45

I know like, survive and survive. Yeah,

Melissa April: 00:34:49

yeah, sorry. That was just like a thing that

Melissa April: 00:34:51

popped up.

Jane Stark: 00:34:54

Yeah, right. We all see this right. We all like

Jane Stark: 00:34:57

we're brought up with Hi, Cora, I agree with with these kinds of

Jane Stark: 00:35:06

beliefs, so. And again, I'm generalizing here, we're not all

Jane Stark: 00:35:10

Yes, definitely, from a cultural perspective, often we are. So

Jane Stark: 00:35:15

it's a lot of like, I know, for myself, it's been a lot of my

Jane Stark: 00:35:18

own deconditioning work and a lot of Oh, yeah, really

Jane Stark: 00:35:21

examining what that looks like. And I love what you shared,

Jane Stark: 00:35:25

Katherine around the personal responsibility side, because Jen

Jane Stark: 00:35:28

and I talk about that a lot. In the work we do, and that's been

Jane Stark: 00:35:32

a huge part of my journey. And, you know, it's sort of one of

Jane Stark: 00:35:36

our slogans that we've come up with is this own your shit?

Jane Stark: 00:35:40

idea, right. And so starting to kind of own that, and the power,

Jane Stark: 00:35:45

the power that it gives both people, right, like, when you

Jane Stark: 00:35:48

own it, it, it gives you your power back, but it also gives in

Jane Stark: 00:35:52

that situation would give Melissa her power, and then

Jane Stark: 00:35:55

we're able to equally move forward. On you have a level

Jane Stark: 00:36:00

playing field.

Melissa April: 00:36:01

Yeah, and you have two people in their power.

Melissa April: 00:36:04

That's only a recipe for something good, you know,

Melissa April: 00:36:07

whether that's your relationship goes to a new level of trust,

Melissa April: 00:36:13

and you know, that just that next level, or your two people

Melissa April: 00:36:19

in your power, realizing maybe this is not the relationship,

Melissa April: 00:36:24

maybe this is maybe it's time, right, but you can do it in a

Melissa April: 00:36:28

peaceful, loving way. And I think that's that we, especially

Melissa April: 00:36:33

as women are conditioned to be nice and work it out. And, you

Melissa April: 00:36:38

know, at all costs, just, you know, keep the peace, the peace,

Melissa April: 00:36:42

the peace and pain and relationships, like you would

Melissa April: 00:36:45

never encourage a girlfriend to stay in an abusive relationship

Melissa April: 00:36:49

or to stay in a relationship where she wasn't getting where

Melissa April: 00:36:53

she wasn't fulfilled. Right. And so why would we expect that of

Melissa April: 00:36:58

each other in our personal relationships with other women?

Jane Stark: 00:37:02

Yeah, absolutely. And that's, to with, you know,

Jane Stark: 00:37:07

with us as parents to right, like, I know, Catherine, you

Jane Stark: 00:37:13

have is your oldest, you have a couple of daughters, right?

Katherine Blanco: 00:37:17

Yeah. As three daughters, my, my 17 year old

Katherine Blanco: 00:37:19

is, yeah, is it daughter,

Jane Stark: 00:37:21

so you must be interesting to see how, and to

Jane Stark: 00:37:26

watch that, like, I have a almost 13 year old daughter. And

Jane Stark: 00:37:31

so she's like, right in that prime, teenage friendships

Jane Stark: 00:37:36

scenarios. And it's really interesting to she's starting to

Jane Stark: 00:37:40

open up to me in a different way. Right, like, like, there's

Jane Stark: 00:37:45

opening up when they're younger, and helping them navigate, just

Jane Stark: 00:37:47

kind of hate this is how you operate in a social setting and

Jane Stark: 00:37:51

conflict navigation, you know, as a 678 year old, and now, I'm

Jane Stark: 00:37:57

seeing her move into these other dynamics, and a lot of Mean

Jane Stark: 00:38:02

Girls stuff. And it's still very prevalent, and it's really

Jane Stark: 00:38:06

interesting. And I'm, I never want to lose that opportunity to

Jane Stark: 00:38:10

like, be there and help guide her through that. Because, yeah,

Jane Stark: 00:38:14

what you were just saying, Melissa, is so true. And we have

Jane Stark: 00:38:18

to be so aware to help change that paradigm. Threshold.

Katherine Blanco: 00:38:25

Oh, yeah. Yeah. 100% And actually, it's so

Katherine Blanco: 00:38:30

interesting. I have a very open relationship with my, my

Katherine Blanco: 00:38:33

daughter and she has really enjoyed watching Melissa and I

Katherine Blanco: 00:38:40

friendship blossom. From her perspective. Like, it's really

Katherine Blanco: 00:38:45

sweet. She's way she's wise way beyond her years to be on.

Melissa April: 00:38:48

Like, honestly, when she says that she's not

Melissa April: 00:38:51

just coming from like, my daughter is. Her daughter's

Melissa April: 00:38:55

like, I'm like, she's gonna be she's gonna have like a TED

Melissa April: 00:38:57

Talk. She's gonna

Katherine Blanco: 00:38:59

know like, she's, she's quite, she's quite

Katherine Blanco: 00:39:02

remarkable. And, and she, she's been enjoying watching my

Katherine Blanco: 00:39:08

friendship with Melissa grow because she has witnessed me

Katherine Blanco: 00:39:11

being hurt from the friendships that I had when she was growing

Katherine Blanco: 00:39:16

up. Like because I we kind of grew up together in a lot of

Katherine Blanco: 00:39:20

ways having her at 21 and going through all those relationships

Katherine Blanco: 00:39:26

in my 20s and then finding finding stronger relationships

Katherine Blanco: 00:39:30

in my 30s and she actually went through a lot of turbulence in

Katherine Blanco: 00:39:39

her grade seven year with, with friendships and girls and and

Katherine Blanco: 00:39:44

that coming out then and she's in grade 11 Now, so it was a few

Katherine Blanco: 00:39:50

years ago. But she has been watching this relationship

Katherine Blanco: 00:39:57

unfold with Melissa and I enjoy She's like, it's just so great

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:02

to see how happy you are, when you're with his friend and

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:06

mentor, you come home and, and I even told her about this

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:09

conflict that we had, and shared with her how we moved through it

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:13

and was honest with her about how I made a mistake. And

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:16

Melissa called me in. And so I think, for the listeners, like

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:23

don't, if you are a parent listening to this, like, don't

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:27

be afraid of bringing your kids in to your lessons, because

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:31

they're, they're not just for you, they can be really powerful

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:36

for them to hear to. And it can be a little like humbling again,

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:42

to bring them in that you're still sort of figuring out life

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:45

as a grown up. But it also helps them I believe, move through

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:50

their stuff, because they're like, Oh, this is something like

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:54

I can get some tools from my mom, even though she's just

Katherine Blanco: 00:40:58

discovering this now, what if I discovered this now as a 17 year

Katherine Blanco: 00:41:02

old rather than in my mid 30s? Late 30s. So

Jen Lang: 00:41:07

super different.

Melissa April: 00:41:10

That's interesting. I didn't even think

Melissa April: 00:41:12

of my relationship, like or see my mom in her relationships with

Melissa April: 00:41:16

other women. I feel like this is the first time I'm actually

Melissa April: 00:41:20

thinking of it. But yeah, it's like so much. They're, they're

Melissa April: 00:41:22

modeling. I mean, think of it like with the, the, your father

Melissa April: 00:41:26

or whatever. But yeah, they're modeling

Jane Stark: 00:41:29

modeling all of it, right?

Melissa April: 00:41:31

I mean, this is how you're in relationships.

Melissa April: 00:41:33

And, you know, it's and you grew up in, you see that you see, you

Melissa April: 00:41:36

know, your parents or your your mom and her friends getting

Melissa April: 00:41:39

together and what they're talking about. And, you know,

Melissa April: 00:41:42

you see that kind of interaction. And, of course,

Melissa April: 00:41:46

that's going to imprint, of course, that's going to be

Melissa April: 00:41:49

informing how you then go out into the world and relate to

Melissa April: 00:41:52

each other. And I think, as emotional beings as we are as

Melissa April: 00:42:00

women, that is definitely something that I think you need

Melissa April: 00:42:05

to be proactive and healing and examining and bringing a lot of

Melissa April: 00:42:10

awareness to, in how you are in the world, how you relate to

Melissa April: 00:42:14

other people, other women, how you relate to yourself. Because

Melissa April: 00:42:19

there's a lot of undoing and a lot of Yeah, remembering who we

Melissa April: 00:42:23

are, so that we can be who we are with each other in a really

Melissa April: 00:42:29

in a in positive sisterhood.

Jane Stark: 00:42:33

And being able to speak our truth, and in a kind

Jane Stark: 00:42:36

way, right? Like we can, we can speak up and we can have our

Jane Stark: 00:42:39

boundaries, but we can still be kind and loving about it. And

Jane Stark: 00:42:43

being again, back to that personal responsibility and just

Jane Stark: 00:42:47

being aware of how we're showing up and examining that within the

Jane Stark: 00:42:51

relationships that we have.

Melissa April: 00:42:53

Yeah. And you were asking, like, how, what how

Melissa April: 00:42:57

do we see this sort of like, coming through in the in maybe

Melissa April: 00:43:02

clients and stuff that we work with? And because I do see this

Melissa April: 00:43:06

a lot. And I think we have a lot of I think expectations plays a

Melissa April: 00:43:12

big role in it. Like we, we expect other people to receive

Melissa April: 00:43:17

our truth, or and sometimes that expectation is I expect that

Melissa April: 00:43:21

when I share my truth, that I will be abandoned. Like

Melissa April: 00:43:26

sometimes these are the expectations and the

Melissa April: 00:43:29

expectations and become the beliefs that we carry around in

Melissa April: 00:43:32

the world. As opposed to being like really the only thing that

Melissa April: 00:43:35

we can control, the only thing that we can expect is how we're

Melissa April: 00:43:38

going to react. Yeah. And and so it does you know, it, you have

Melissa April: 00:43:44

to want to be in that examination, you want to be part

Melissa April: 00:43:52

of that like examination of yourself. Like you're you're

Melissa April: 00:43:55

looking at how you are in the world? And how how do you desire

Melissa April: 00:43:59

to how do you desire to be in relationships with other people?

Melissa April: 00:44:02

Are the relationships that you have? Are they ones that are

Melissa April: 00:44:06

deeply fulfilling and eautiful and life giving and expansive?

Melissa April: 00:44:12

Or are they relationships that you had from 20 years ago, where

Melissa April: 00:44:16

you're just keeping them because of honor, because you were

Melissa April: 00:44:20

taught that you, your friends for life, friends for life,

Jen Lang: 00:44:25

and you can have friends for life when you grow

Jen Lang: 00:44:28

together and change together and have these opportunities to

Jen Lang: 00:44:33

approach conflict in a different way. And so it's so interesting

Jen Lang: 00:44:35

because there's so there's a friendship I've had since high

Jen Lang: 00:44:39

school that has Abdun flowed and I was in her wedding. And after

Jen Lang: 00:44:47

the wedding, I took a big pause because I realized that the

Jen Lang: 00:44:52

friendship was not balanced. And it was only like, No, this is

Jen Lang: 00:44:58

we're talking 20 years ago. took this pause, and I didn't see

Jen Lang: 00:45:02

them that much. And then I just want to know, last fall was

Jen Lang: 00:45:08

doing some energetic healing training. And it was so

Jen Lang: 00:45:13

interesting, because the third weekend of the training, this

Jen Lang: 00:45:15

person messaged me, and was like, Hey, how are you? I was

Jen Lang: 00:45:20

like, Oh, this is interesting. And so I went with it. And I met

Jen Lang: 00:45:26

with them, along with another friend, mutual friend from high

Jen Lang: 00:45:29

school. And it was a really beautiful and fulfilling

Jen Lang: 00:45:32

conversation. And where we could, we didn't obviously talk

Jen Lang: 00:45:36

about it. But there were many ways that we can recognize that

Jen Lang: 00:45:40

each other had changed over the past 20 years. And so we'd had

Jen Lang: 00:45:43

this moment of like, massive distance, and then coming back

Jen Lang: 00:45:48

together, where there was there wasn't the same awkwardness as

Jen Lang: 00:45:52

there was 20 years ago. And that, yes, it was a symbol of

Jen Lang: 00:45:55

growth, super powerful. And we haven't talked consciously about

Jen Lang: 00:45:58

that yet. But for me, it was such a beautiful observation to

Jen Lang: 00:46:02

go like, okay, so, yes, we've been friends a long time, yes,

Jen Lang: 00:46:07

our friendship could just have remained separated. But then it

Jen Lang: 00:46:12

also, it was kind of one of those maybe, maybe we each

Jen Lang: 00:46:16

needed that break on that pause to grow on our own, so that we

Jen Lang: 00:46:19

could rediscover that next level of friendship again.

Melissa April: 00:46:24

Love that? Well, and it's, you know, I think with

Melissa April: 00:46:26

long term relationships like that, the expectation is, that

Melissa April: 00:46:33

person is always going to be that person that they were 20

Melissa April: 00:46:36

years ago for me now. And that's just not, yeah, that's just not

Melissa April: 00:46:41

realistic, because we do change. And sometimes your growth paths,

Melissa April: 00:46:46

evolution paths are at different speeds at different rates in

Melissa April: 00:46:48

different directions. And so I think Katherine and I were

Melissa April: 00:46:52

talking about this in a recent episode, like, it's just like in

Melissa April: 00:46:55

a, in a partnership with your, with your significant other,

Melissa April: 00:47:00

it's like, you make the choice to grow together, you make the

Melissa April: 00:47:02

choice to honor each other as you change and grow. And that

Melissa April: 00:47:06

has to be like, that has to be, like, agreed upon, even if it's

Melissa April: 00:47:12

not spoken. It's like, we understand that we're both going

Melissa April: 00:47:15

to change and evolve. And we can honor that. And we can hold

Melissa April: 00:47:17

space for that. And we still choose each other. Yeah. And

Melissa April: 00:47:20

yet, we don't do that with our friendships all the time. And I

Melissa April: 00:47:24

mean, how beautiful that is to be able to come back in union

Melissa April: 00:47:27

with somebody and recognize, and what if we knew that sooner?

Melissa April: 00:47:31

Like, what if we knew that, right? I mean, situations like

Melissa April: 00:47:35

that, where even now I'm like, wow, this person that was such a

Melissa April: 00:47:39

close friend, to me, it's not feeling the same way. And

Melissa April: 00:47:44

there's been a lot of hurt feelings, but nothing has been

Melissa April: 00:47:46

said, because we are not able to pinpoint what it is. Or even

Melissa April: 00:47:50

like, give it energy. Because what if that means that we're

Melissa April: 00:47:53

not friends anymore, then that's hurt, then that's grief. And

Melissa April: 00:47:56

that's fear. And it's fear. But what if we could speak about it

Melissa April: 00:48:00

and say, like, hey, what if? But can we just talk about this?

Melissa April: 00:48:06

Yeah. And

Jane Stark: 00:48:08

expectations we put on, on these relationships,

Jane Stark: 00:48:12

right? And I think you, you really identified a really

Jane Stark: 00:48:16

interesting point there, where we kind of have that dialogue

Jane Stark: 00:48:20

around our more intimate relationships, like our partners

Jane Stark: 00:48:24

for life, or a period of spouses houses. But we don't apply that

Jane Stark: 00:48:30

same lens to friendship so much. It's our you just gave media

Jane Stark: 00:48:35

with the awareness that like, Yeah, wow, where have I not had

Jane Stark: 00:48:39

that? expectation? I mean, not so much now, but definitely,

Jane Stark: 00:48:44

like, definitely, with friendships from, you know,

Jane Stark: 00:48:48

growing up and my 20s and stuff where it's sort of had to look a

Jane Stark: 00:48:52

certain way, and oh, my gosh, if it didn't work, then we weren't

Jane Stark: 00:48:54

friends anymore. That was a big drama, or something like that,

Jane Stark: 00:48:56

versus allowing, like you say, allowing for that ebb and flow

Jane Stark: 00:49:00

to or that space where it's like, yeah, maybe we're on

Jane Stark: 00:49:02

different paths right now. And that's okay. And we'll come back

Jane Stark: 00:49:04

together. That feel like code? Yeah. Right.

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:15

It's so funny, because it's circling back to my

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:19

daughter, I just keep thinking about her because she actually

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:21

has one of her best friends. They've been friends since her

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:26

friend was three. And so my daughter was four. And they

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:30

still talk to each other pretty much every single night and they

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:33

have changed a lot. Like it's amazing. It's amazing. And they

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:37

have changed a lot. But recently, there was something

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:41

that happened that was a little bit of a conflict and I was

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:43

like, You need to tell her you need to tell her because she

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:46

didn't she wasn't speaking to her friend about it because she

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:50

didn't want to ruffle the feathers and and oh my I think

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:55

that you just need to get it off your chest and so that she did

Katherine Blanco: 00:49:58

it. She kind of pushed For a little bit outside of her

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:01

comfort zone, but also she's like, oh, yeah, that's like

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:04

she's also recognizing like that. It's important. She

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:07

actually listened to one of his episodes. Before she did it and

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:13

of the Sisterhood of the Traveling bitches. And yeah. So

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:21

she, she listened to that episode. And she did, she

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:24

reached out and, and even though they had been speaking every

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:26

night, she just hadn't said this one thing and, and it landed

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:30

really easily on her friend's ears. It was one of those

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:34

situations sort of like what, Melissa and I suppose to earlier

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:37

like, so it's not that it means it's not that we need to do this

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:41

in our 30s. No, we can, like our children can do this too, in

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:46

their teens. Um, but I think it is a little bit more scared

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:51

here. But there is that capacity to have that the relationship

Katherine Blanco: 00:50:56

from a very young age

Melissa April: 00:50:58

wasn't taught in schools. No,

Unknown: 00:51:00

I Oh, no. We really?

Jane Stark: 00:51:04

Yeah. I also wonder like the when you were sharing

Jane Stark: 00:51:07

that it made me think about also the intention behind when we

Jane Stark: 00:51:11

share these things. And when we speak up, right, like, I just

Jane Stark: 00:51:13

got the I don't know, when you were talking about that with

Jane Stark: 00:51:17

your daughter right away. I was like, oh, but like, her heart

Jane Stark: 00:51:19

was so open. My intention is just like, I just need to get

Jane Stark: 00:51:23

this off my chest. But it's not a big drama. It's like, I need

Jane Stark: 00:51:27

this to be said, and let's move forward. And I think there's

Jane Stark: 00:51:29

something in that. And you kind of spoke like that to Melissa,

Jane Stark: 00:51:33

when you shared how you approach Catherine. Like,

Melissa April: 00:51:37

this is like the deep longing that we have to be

Melissa April: 00:51:40

seen and heard Yes. To be witness, it's just to be on the

Melissa April: 00:51:46

stage and to be, you know, you know, it's not about that it's

Melissa April: 00:51:51

about being able to be seen and heard for who we are with the

Melissa April: 00:51:55

people that we love, yeah, to be accepted by them to be, even if

Melissa April: 00:52:00

they don't agree with it, but they can still receive it like.

Melissa April: 00:52:04

And I mean, this is the village, right? When we come back to

Melissa April: 00:52:07

healthy village mentality, we're able to do that. But we live in

Melissa April: 00:52:11

a very broken society where this isn't taught. And this isn't

Melissa April: 00:52:18

actually the way that things go. Right. This isn't the way things

Melissa April: 00:52:21

are supposed to go in this narrative. And so we got to come

Melissa April: 00:52:28

back to the roots, we got to come back to the truth, we got

Melissa April: 00:52:31

to come back to who we are.

Jen Lang: 00:52:34

And saving. Yeah, saying what's on your heart with

Jen Lang: 00:52:36

courage and grace. And just trusting that the way it will be

Jen Lang: 00:52:40

received is, is the way it's meant to be received and will

Jen Lang: 00:52:44

move you forward in one way or another, and the acceptance

Jen Lang: 00:52:48

around how that will be moved you forward. And it might move

Jen Lang: 00:52:50

you forward in a way that you didn't think you had

Jen Lang: 00:52:54

expectations around. And then you're like, Oh, I actually did

Jen Lang: 00:52:57

have it shows you those expectations, then it may move

Jen Lang: 00:53:00

you forward in that beautiful way that we've all experienced

Jen Lang: 00:53:03

that you and Melissa and Catherine just described so

Jen Lang: 00:53:05

beautifully with your friendship. So yeah,

Jane Stark: 00:53:09

I have one last question to take this in a

Jane Stark: 00:53:12

little bit of a different direction before we wrap it up.

Jane Stark: 00:53:14

But I'm curious. Your take on we're talking and unpacking this

Jane Stark: 00:53:20

whole What does a healthy female friendship look like? Or

Jane Stark: 00:53:24

relationship? How? And like, the questions sort of not totally

Jane Stark: 00:53:30

phrase, but in my head, I'm like, Oh my gosh, imagine if we

Jane Stark: 00:53:33

can all just start to seek out more of these relationships.

Jane Stark: 00:53:36

Like as you guys were talking, I'm like, you know, find your

Jane Stark: 00:53:39

people find the people that can support you and hear you and see

Jane Stark: 00:53:44

you and witness you, as we've kind of talked about. And how

Jane Stark: 00:53:50

can how that can change the world. I mean, that sounds very

Jane Stark: 00:53:53

grandiose. But like, how I don't Ender's Game, maybe there's not

Jane Stark: 00:53:58

a question just the statement. But like, I don't know, there's

Jane Stark: 00:54:01

just something I'm like, Oh my gosh, like,

Melissa April: 00:54:04

go, what come what comes to mind is almost

Melissa April: 00:54:06

like if there's power in numbers. So I might be in my own

Melissa April: 00:54:10

little world having this conversation in my head and

Melissa April: 00:54:16

speaking my truth to people who can't receive it. Or I can find

Melissa April: 00:54:21

the people who also want to have that kind of dynamic, even if

Melissa April: 00:54:25

we're not quite sure how we do it, but we know that's what we

Melissa April: 00:54:28

want. And then that that energy grows from there, right? You

Melissa April: 00:54:33

know what I mean? It's like and more people see what what are

Melissa April: 00:54:35

they doing over there they have such beautiful and that's what I

Melissa April: 00:54:38

really look towards I look at the people who have really

Melissa April: 00:54:41

strong sisterhood who support like supporting it gives me

Melissa April: 00:54:45

goosebumps thinking of it but like really support each other

Melissa April: 00:54:48

and, and hold space for each other and kind of come back to

Melissa April: 00:54:53

these ancient ways of being with each other. And I want that. I

Melissa April: 00:54:58

want that That's what I desire in my bones. That's what I want.

Melissa April: 00:55:03

And so people like Katherine, people like my friend Justine,

Melissa April: 00:55:07

you know, these women in my life now I'm like, they're setting

Melissa April: 00:55:10

the there's, there's, this is a new bar, this is a new, this is

Melissa April: 00:55:15

the new village. For me, this is where I want to be. This is

Melissa April: 00:55:17

where I want to grow this or I want to be witness, this is

Melissa April: 00:55:20

where I want to share my gifts. This is where I want to

Melissa April: 00:55:23

influence I want to share an impact from this space because

Melissa April: 00:55:27

these women make me feel my power.

Jen Lang: 00:55:30

Oh, bam, that was great. Completely magic. Here's

Jen Lang: 00:55:39

the magic. So if you're listening to this podcast, and

Jen Lang: 00:55:43

you want to feel that way, spend more time with us. Yeah, yeah.

Jen Lang: 00:55:47

Right. And I think we all secretly desire that that really

Jen Lang: 00:55:51

comes down to that belonging, that belonging piece that is so

Jen Lang: 00:55:56

fundamentally human, and is one of those, you know, primary

Jen Lang: 00:56:00

primary drivers. It's like food, shelter, belonging, love, you

Jen Lang: 00:56:05

know, and

Jane Stark: 00:56:07

this community to right like community, this whole

Jane Stark: 00:56:10

conversation, I keep being like, oh, my gosh, this is why like,

Jane Stark: 00:56:13

women's circles are so powerful. Like, getting into that space.

Jane Stark: 00:56:18

And like, you were sort of sharing like, from your, like,

Jane Stark: 00:56:20

pulling kind of some of that ancient roots stuff forward. But

Jane Stark: 00:56:24

finding it can be through, maybe it starts by finding a circle

Jane Stark: 00:56:28

finding, like butter that looks like a retreat, or, you know, a

Jane Stark: 00:56:31

yoga class or, you know, multiple different ways that

Jane Stark: 00:56:36

just this being in circle and finding those people and then

Jane Stark: 00:56:40

also, like you say, comes in friendship and really cascade.

Melissa April: 00:56:45

Yeah, well, and I see a lot, too, like people

Melissa April: 00:56:49

just, of course, because we're resistant to change, our little

Melissa April: 00:56:53

lizard brains want to stay exactly where we're put, and

Melissa April: 00:56:56

never move. But it's like, I think I see so often people

Melissa April: 00:57:00

wanting to fit into what's already there, instead of

Melissa April: 00:57:03

breaking out of the mold and finding what's right for them.

Melissa April: 00:57:07

And I guess that's one thing that I would want to say is,

Melissa April: 00:57:11

like, give yourself permission to break the mold a little bit.

Melissa April: 00:57:14

That doesn't mean you're leaving behind anybody, your family,

Melissa April: 00:57:16

still your family, you know, there's still an opportunity to

Melissa April: 00:57:22

find new ways of relating with the people in your life. But

Melissa April: 00:57:24

there's also this other realm where the people that are really

Melissa April: 00:57:30

going to like your those soul people, those soul connections,

Melissa April: 00:57:33

they're also there waiting to embrace you and crack you wide

Melissa April: 00:57:37

open, essentially.

Katherine Blanco: 00:57:40

Beautiful, I just like to add, like being

Katherine Blanco: 00:57:44

willing to show up and doing a relationship or wants to talk

Katherine Blanco: 00:57:52

and be able to show up as yourself and

Melissa April: 00:58:01

perfect example, Yeah, Mom, just like this.

Melissa April: 00:58:17

Is now the time that we're gonna

Katherine Blanco: 00:58:20

be rolling a shirt I'm wearing. So I think

Katherine Blanco: 00:58:38

also, the big piece here is showing up in our relationships

Katherine Blanco: 00:58:41

fully as who we are, so that we can also be seen as who we are,

Katherine Blanco: 00:58:47

take off that mask, be who you are in your relationships so

Katherine Blanco: 00:58:51

that you can find out who your tribe is a lot faster if you're

Katherine Blanco: 00:58:54

actually showing up as yourself. That's the benefit

Melissa April: 00:58:57

of actually saying the things that you mean

Melissa April: 00:58:59

to say, and bringing things up as things arise instead of

Melissa April: 00:59:03

letting them fester. Because you're going to figure out

Melissa April: 00:59:05

sooner sooner rather than later those the people who can hold

Melissa April: 00:59:08

that energy for you.

Katherine Blanco: 00:59:10

Yes, and it's scary. I'm not saying that this

Katherine Blanco: 00:59:14

is easy. So if you're listening to this, like, Oh, okay. Yeah.

Katherine Blanco: 00:59:18

Especially if we're so conditioned to have the like to,

Katherine Blanco: 00:59:22

to be in friendships that are very surface level. And if

Katherine Blanco: 00:59:26

that's not what you're seeking, then you're going to have to be

Katherine Blanco: 00:59:29

willing to go deep first sometimes and see where it

Katherine Blanco: 00:59:33

lands. See what happens. And it's not always easy, and it can

Katherine Blanco: 00:59:38

you can get hurt. But it can also have the opposite effect

Katherine Blanco: 00:59:43

and grow something really really special.

Jane Stark: 00:59:47

Yeah, well and your your because we know in pretty

Jane Stark: 00:59:50

much every area of this work, right? You're only going to get

Jane Stark: 00:59:53

as far as you're willing to go. And we have to be willing to go

Jane Stark: 00:59:59

deep get that depth of relationship

Melissa April: 01:00:03

that says the river. What are we willing to

Melissa April: 01:00:05

let die so that we can make that beautiful soil from which to

Melissa April: 01:00:11

plant these new seeds? Right. So

Jen Lang: 01:00:15

amazing.

Jane Stark: 01:00:16

This is a good note to wrap on that thank you guys

Jane Stark: 01:00:20

so much for sharing your wisdom. And

Melissa April: 01:00:25

your honor we have, we should have a quad pod.

Jane Stark: 01:00:28

I know I was. I'm like, I like to host like a

Jane Stark: 01:00:32

retreat like the four of us and like, create that space. Wide

Jane Stark: 01:00:36

pod. I like

Melissa April: 01:00:39

the quad partner treat it like a podcast, but in

Melissa April: 01:00:42

real life. Lots of different hosts. We know we love. We've

Melissa April: 01:00:49

loved these conversations with you. Both are just such

Melissa April: 01:00:53

wonderful, inspiring, expensive peoples. So thank you so much

Melissa April: 01:00:58

for inviting us on the show.

Unknown: 01:01:01

Yeah, thank you, I think changes.

Jane Stark: 01:01:04

Yeah. So where can where can our guests find you

Jane Stark: 01:01:07

guys?

Jen Lang: 01:01:09

And what you offering it out?

Melissa April: 01:01:11

Oh, yeah. So at the only codes is our podcast

Melissa April: 01:01:16

page. You can also find me at the Melissa APR. And Catherine's

Melissa April: 01:01:23

at the Catherine Blanco birth. Yeah, there's going to be

Jen Lang: 01:01:27

in the show notes. I'll put those links in the show

Jen Lang: 01:01:30

notes.

Melissa April: 01:01:31

And we are Katherine and I are going to be

Melissa April: 01:01:36

launching a red tent ceremonial program all around honoring our

Melissa April: 01:01:44

sacred menstruation and it's going to be pretty powerful. We

Melissa April: 01:01:48

do a a red tent series on the podcast as well. So if you're

Melissa April: 01:01:54

interested in learning more about the the mysteries of the

Melissa April: 01:01:59

of the deep, dark, feminine and sacred menstruation you can

Melissa April: 01:02:03

check those out. And if you're interested in joining the red

Melissa April: 01:02:08

tent ceremonial program, we can find us on Instagram and send us

Melissa April: 01:02:14

a DM

Jen Lang: 01:02:15

sounds awesome. Thank you

Jane Stark: 01:02:17

super juicy. exactly about that. Yeah, well.

Jen Lang: 01:02:21

Alright guys happy note. Let's wrap it up. Thank

Jen Lang: 01:02:25

you so much, Melissa and Catherine for being an Cora

Jen Lang: 01:02:29

making a guest appearance on this beautiful fun podcast

Jen Lang: 01:02:33

episode. I'm sure we will have you back as guests again in the

Jen Lang: 01:02:37

future. I'm sure there'll be many more conversations for all

Jen Lang: 01:02:40

four of us to have. And I don't know how much more to add. So

Jen Lang: 01:02:45

thank you all feel or unmute yourself and say thanks, Jamie.

Jen Lang: 01:02:48

Anything else?

Unknown: 01:02:51

Ladies, thank you.

Jen Lang: 01:02:54

Bye. Thanks for joining us for these conscious

Jen Lang: 01:02:59

combos. If you're ready to dive deeper, head on over to Dr. Jenn

Jen Lang: 01:03:03

and jane.com to continue the conversation.

Jane Stark: 01:03:05

If you'd love this episode, please take a moment to

Jane Stark: 01:03:08

share it with your friends or your network and leave us a

Jane Stark: 01:03:10

review by going to Apple podcasts. Find us on Instagram

Jane Stark: 01:03:13

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Jane Stark: 01:03:16

you would like to see more of. We'd love to hear from you.