Episode 60

full
Published on:

24th May 2022

The Beginning is Shit with Suzanne Culberg

In this Episode Jen + Jane welcome guest Suzanne Culberg (bio below). This is rather a sweary episode, so it is likely not safe for work or for kiddos.

Jen + Jane and Suzanne discuss the traps we can all fall into when we decide to ‘do some work’, the dangers of idolizing a particular person, method, or path, and how endless enthusiasm cannot stop the fact that the beginning is $h!t. They cover everything from over-giving and over-functioning to diet fails and relationship distress.

Enjoy the convo!

 

Guest Bio:

Suzanne Culberg is an international mindset coach who transforms bodies and minds. She is also a speaker and author (of The Beginning is Sh*t, an unapologetic weight-loss memoir).

Suzanne believes women often gain weight because they give too much to others. They over-eat because they over-give. This pattern of over-giving can also manifest in other areas of life, such as work and relationships.

Suzanne helps her clients deal with negative patterns of behavior, build confidence, and create lasting change. 

 She lives in Sydney, Australia with her husband and two young children who keep her both busy and entertained.

 

SOCIAL LINKS:

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/suzanneculberg

Website - https://www.suzanneculberg.com

 

Additional Resources/Reading:

●     Download the first two chapters of Suzanne's book The Beginning is Sh*t at https://www.suzanneculberg.com/book/

●     Ira Glass Quote can be found here:

 

Questions for further guidance:

●     Intention + Attention = Result

●     Brene Brown - Clear is Kind

 

 

Disclaimer:

On the No Halos Here Podcast, we explore a wide range of topics broadly categorized as well-being. We encourage you to do your own research and make informed choices about your health and wellbeing. The information we provide is never a substitute for qualified advice specific to your individual needs. In listening, you take full responsibility for implementing any suggestions shared on the podcast and you agree to indemnify us completely against all consequences arising directly or indirectly from your choices.

About Jen and Jane

Jen Lang

Jen believes in the power and wisdom of women’s voices. She’s a guide for women who want to tune into and align their inner voice so their outer voice can shine; uniting physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual energies into a powerful voice ready to share your message.

Jane Stark

Passionate about energetic alignment and living life from a place of personal power, Jane is a heart-centered leader, certified health and life coach, and marketing strategist.  She leads others to play bigger and feel lighter by helping them see and navigate their blocks and connect more deeply with themselves.

Continue the conversation:

Instagram: www.instagram.com/wearejenandjane 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/No-Halos-Here-Podcast

Community: Keep up on all things Jen & Jane: http://eepurl.com/hk31JX 

Download the Empowerment Playbook: https://www.wearejenandjane.com/playbook 


Thanks for listening!

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Transcript
Jen Lang:

This is no halos here hosted by Jen Lang and Jane

Jen Lang:

Stark, the place to inspire a change in your consciousness to

Jen Lang:

elevate the world. We're to heart centered business owners

Jen Lang:

nourishing our inner rebels while growing our respective

Jen Lang:

businesses.

Jane Stark:

No halos here is the result of bringing together an

Jane Stark:

opera singer turned spiritual mentor and a marketing

Jane Stark:

professional turned while being coached to meditate daily.

Jane Stark:

Together we unite physical, mental, emotional and spiritual

Jane Stark:

energies into a powerful presence to lead heal and

Jane Stark:

inspire. We love exploring the shadowed edges of life, the

Jane Stark:

universe and beyond through honest and thought provoking

Jane Stark:

conversations. Let's dive in.

Jen Lang:

Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of no

Jen Lang:

halos here with Jen Lang and Jane Stark. Today we are really,

Jen Lang:

really excited to have a fantastic person that I have

Jen Lang:

known in the online business world I'm going to say for at

Jen Lang:

least four years, probably longer. I'm welcoming, we are

Jen Lang:

welcoming Suzanne Kohlberg from Australia to know halos here.

Jen Lang:

Welcome, Suzanne.

Suzanne Culberg:

Thank you, Jen. Thank you, Jane.

Jane Stark:

Hello. So nice to have you here with us. I'm

Jane Stark:

really looking forward to this discussion. We had a little

Jane Stark:

brief, a brief meet and greet a couple of weeks ago and it was

Jane Stark:

so juicy.

Jen Lang:

It was it was and we actually have it's just kind of

Jen Lang:

ironic. We have bonded over the word shit. Yeah, we kind of

Jen Lang:

have, haven't we? Because, you know, one of our tag lines is

Jen Lang:

own your shit. Not everyone else's. And Suzanne wrote a book

Jen Lang:

called The beginning of shit. So you know, here we are. Here we

Jen Lang:

are unpacking, unpacking this shit. So just in case you didn't

Jen Lang:

get the memo, this episode is definitely not safe for young

Jen Lang:

ears. We'll need to mark it as explicit language. Before we get

Jen Lang:

into this. And Suzanne, I'm going to hand this over to you

Jen Lang:

to give us a brief introduction about who you are, where you're

Jen Lang:

from, and what you're working on. Now.

Suzanne Culberg:

Thank you so much, Jen. I must admit the

Suzanne Culberg:

introverted me dies inside when it's like Introduce yourself.

Suzanne Culberg:

Thank you. So my name is Suzanne Kohlberg. I am an author, a

Suzanne Culberg:

healer and a life coach. I call myself the accidental

Suzanne Culberg:

entrepreneur because I was going to be a doctor. I did five years

Suzanne Culberg:

of medical school, I was almost there. And my, my business

Suzanne Culberg:

journey is quite long. I originally was a personal

Suzanne Culberg:

trainer, because exercise was the answer for everything. And I

Suzanne Culberg:

did that for just over a year. And then I trained to be a

Suzanne Culberg:

teacher and decided that I didn't actually want to teach

Suzanne Culberg:

people who weren't interested in learning anything. So six months

Suzanne Culberg:

of that, then I worked for the government for a couple of years

Suzanne Culberg:

in the call center, got the kind of call center but happening on

Suzanne Culberg:

a chair. And eventually, I did. I was coached as a client in NLP

Suzanne Culberg:

and other coaching practices released to Bhutan and weight

Suzanne Culberg:

and become a weight loss coach. And I've recently really shifted

Suzanne Culberg:

really into this focus of over giving, because I find,

Suzanne Culberg:

especially women, we we give so much to others. And then we will

Suzanne Culberg:

often say like nobody ever does anything for me. And we kind of

Suzanne Culberg:

have this seething resentment that we would never publicly

Suzanne Culberg:

admit to. But I believe that giving and receiving appeared

Suzanne Culberg:

states like inhaling and exhaling. So when you give and

Suzanne Culberg:

give and give the way that you receive, like an over giver will

Suzanne Culberg:

over consume. And that could be eating, which is my history. I'm

Suzanne Culberg:

a foodie. But it could also be overworking, over shopping over

Suzanne Culberg:

scrolling, compare and despair on Facebook or Instagram, that

Suzanne Culberg:

sort of thing. So we are receiving but in ways that

Suzanne Culberg:

aren't actually healthy or nourishing for our souls. And so

Suzanne Culberg:

that's the focus of my work now how to basically say no without

Suzanne Culberg:

feeling like a bitch.

Jen Lang:

How do I know if Yeah, the subtitle or the even like

Jen Lang:

the next blog post? Or how to say no without feeling like

Jen Lang:

yeah, that's brilliant. Thanks for the intro, Suzanne. And for

Jen Lang:

an introvert It was spectacular. And it really told us so much

Jen Lang:

about your journey in a way that was clear, relatable, and I'm

Jen Lang:

sure that all of us listening have had related in some form or

Jen Lang:

another to something Suzanne said whether it's that over

Jen Lang:

giving and receiving piece or if it was the Compare and despair

Jen Lang:

aspect of social media that infuses so much of our lives

Jen Lang:

today. And interestingly, Jane and I were just having a

Jen Lang:

conversation this morning about what was ever functioning over

Jen Lang:

functioning under functioning. So it's similar a similar way

Jen Lang:

and the way it like we were both reflecting on relationships are

Jen Lang:

the relationship Yeah, yeah. And you know, it's like oh, I over

Jen Lang:

function in this area, but um, maybe I might be too critical if

Jen Lang:

I say I'm under functioning in this area. So there's that

Jen Lang:

reflection piece but without getting caught in the the pit of

Jen Lang:

despair. You know?

Unknown:

Yes space.

Jane Stark:

So powerful. Yeah. And I, I'm an I'm a recovering

Jane Stark:

over funktioner. So what you talk about Suzanne, and you

Jane Stark:

know, just sort of, I haven't read your book yet, but I would,

Jane Stark:

it's on our list and I have the first two chapters because he

Jane Stark:

has a great a great offer there where if you want to read the

Jane Stark:

first two chapters of her book, is it just sign up on your

Jane Stark:

website, right

Unknown:

on my websites.com forward slash book, first two

Unknown:

chapters is that does not put you on her newsletter. In fact,

Unknown:

it does not add you to my newsletter, it's one of my pet

Unknown:

peeves, you have the option to opt in after that, but I don't

Unknown:

like implicit consent. It's like, no, if you want to join my

Unknown:

newsletter, that's a whole different ballgame.

Jane Stark:

I really liked that I really respect that. What I

Jane Stark:

was going to share, though, on the over functioning, and what

Jane Stark:

Jen was sort of talking about, too, and you might have another,

Jane Stark:

I would love to hear what you have to say about this Suzanne,

Jane Stark:

around, I was listening to something the other day about

Jane Stark:

this. And how over funktioner is, by law of like, if you look

Jane Stark:

at it almost like a math equation in a relationship,

Jane Stark:

you're going to attract Putin and under funktioner. And then

Jane Stark:

and then to your point where you're talking about the

Jane Stark:

resentment that builds and all of the feelings, you're, you

Jane Stark:

know, it's almost until you start to meet yourself and

Jane Stark:

become whole and start to step into your worthiness, then then

Jane Stark:

the equation starts to shift, but as long as we're over

Jane Stark:

functioning, there's no room for another over function or to come

Jane Stark:

in. Exactly, or to at or to get to that healthy space of I would

Jane Stark:

interdependence is the word that comes to mind. Yeah, what what

Jane Stark:

would you say on that,

Unknown:

it's interesting, because everything is in a

Unknown:

paired state, there needs to be a balance. So if you're an over

Unknown:

functional, then by virtue, you will attract under functions, or

Unknown:

you would portray them in that aspect. So I imagine you could

Unknown:

have a relationship with to over functions, but you'd be over

Unknown:

functioning in different areas, to say, for example, you could

Unknown:

have one person who's like I'm, I'm in charge of the house and

Unknown:

the kids and the other ones I'm in charge of making the income

Unknown:

and it could kind of work but not healthfully that a word is

Unknown:

now not in a healthy way. So and it's interesting, because when

Unknown:

we have a push energy, like I over function in this area, we

Unknown:

not and the thing is we're not conscious of any of these things

Unknown:

until we get to the point where we are burnt out exhausted. And

Unknown:

then we're get resentful and Blaney so it's, it's

Unknown:

fascinating, the balance and owning our place in it, rather

Unknown:

than falling into that victim archetype of like, nobody ever

Unknown:

does anything for me, it's like because I don't let them

Jen Lang:

Oh, that was me for a long time. And this idea that I

Jen Lang:

wasn't open to receiving me to

Jane Stark:

or it also, I mean, again, if I ever use this, if I

Jane Stark:

use myself over function are also means I want control.

Jane Stark:

Right? So Control Freak goes along. Yes.

Unknown:

100%. And realizing that and, and letting go of that

Unknown:

can be challenging, especially if it's something that we have

Unknown:

developed as a coping mechanism like, and I think, in terms of

Unknown:

over eating and binge eating, like, that's been my personal

Unknown:

history. There was so much in my life, I couldn't control but I

Unknown:

could control what I ate, and even over ate, because, you

Unknown:

know, that was something that there's no passive eating like

Unknown:

this passive smoking. I can't blame anybody else for that,

Unknown:

except myself.

Jane Stark:

So what was your journey? Can you share a little

Jane Stark:

bit of your journey then to I mean, this is exactly what a big

Jane Stark:

piece of what Jen and I talked about with that opening our

Jane Stark:

shit, right? Like you just sort of said that you're the one.

Jane Stark:

There is no, how did you say it? There's no passive overeating,

Unknown:

or eating like this passive smoking.

Jane Stark:

So you had to own it. So what what did that look

Jane Stark:

like for you?

Unknown:

Well, basically, the beginning the beginning and

Unknown:

ship. When I was very young, my parents put me on my first diet

Unknown:

so that the pattern that I inherited was from modeling that

Unknown:

we die we start on Monday, we clean out the pantry, we'd be

Unknown:

really good until Friday, when we fall off spectacularly and

Unknown:

have you know, no holds barred binge fest until Sunday night

Unknown:

when we clean the pantry out again. So that has what was what

Unknown:

was modeled to me as a child. And I do remember going to visit

Unknown:

people's houses like friends houses, and they're having like

Unknown:

avocado, candy and avocados so fattening. In hindsight, I

Unknown:

imagine there must have just been laughing at me as soon as I

Unknown:

left or whatever. Anyway, I digress.

Jane Stark:

Also kind of part. Sorry, wasn't that also kind of

Jane Stark:

part of like, I remember there was a time when we thought that

Jane Stark:

right and anything that was high fat was bad.

Unknown:

I know. It's fascinating, isn't it? That's

Unknown:

why

Jen Lang:

prompted the whole margarine movement right? Oh

Jen Lang:

yeah, that butter better be margarine like and then they

Jen Lang:

discovered the whole margarine was like you're eating plastic

Jen Lang:

worse than butter

Jane Stark:

well or the whole low the whole low fat movement

Jane Stark:

like I grew up singing in a household where it was skim milk

Jane Stark:

and fat free sour cream and like fat free yogurt and all of those

Jane Stark:

things and now it's it was very I'm taking us on a tangent here

Jane Stark:

briefly I want to come back to what you were saying there,

Jane Stark:

Suzanne. But it was an interesting exercise. As I

Jane Stark:

started to move in, I certified as a health coach. And as I

Jane Stark:

started to look more and more at what I was putting in my body, I

Jane Stark:

you know, shifted to you know, even with my kids, I never moved

Jane Stark:

them off full fat milk. And, you know, it was my mom was sort of

Jane Stark:

like, not not judgy but just like this was so weird for her

Jane Stark:

because she was so in that but it was which was a product of

Jane Stark:

her time, right? Like,

Unknown:

exactly, that's how it my parents haven't moved out of

Unknown:

that. So they live in a different state. And when we

Unknown:

visit, I always buy my own butter and milk, like full fat

Unknown:

that we bring, I come here, I go to the shop and get the skim

Unknown:

milk in the fat because I won't eat anything differently. And

Unknown:

yeah, it wasn't it wasn't movement, but not for everybody.

Unknown:

And like the people's houses I visit when they had like avocado

Unknown:

or bacon or full fat milk, I'd be there in like horror. But

Unknown:

this is the fascination of it because we would eat these low

Unknown:

fat skim tasteless things. And then No, it's a little wonder

Unknown:

were like binging biscuits and whatever, because like, hello,

Unknown:

but then you just didn't see, like, even with clients I work

Unknown:

with. It's fascinating to me how it's like I couldn't eat bread,

Unknown:

like I can't eat toast breads bad. But I'll go to McDonald's

Unknown:

and do a drive thru run. So it's like, if I'm going to, I'm going

Unknown:

to go bad. I'm gonna get all the way. Thinking there. Anyway, so

Unknown:

that's, that's how it started. And I moved out of home at 18.

Unknown:

And I continued that cycle. And then I eventually was in not

Unknown:

that much longer joined Weight Watchers. So the well known

Unknown:

program, had a lot of success dropped 43 kilos, which is just

Unknown:

shy of 100 pounds. And the thing was, this started, actually, she

Unknown:

can read about in my book, I can, yeah, lots and lots of

Unknown:

these things. But whenever I found the diet that was like the

Unknown:

answer, there was like, I found the thing. But I was the fat

Unknown:

lazy fuck who couldn't keep it up. So it was it was fascinating

Unknown:

to me. Because like if these things truly worked, why do we

Unknown:

fall off them? We give our power to the program and say Weight

Unknown:

Watchers Jenny Craig Tony Ferguson insert the thing. And

Unknown:

then I'm just like, I can't do this, there's something wrong

Unknown:

with me, it sets us up for thinking there's something

Unknown:

inherently wrong with us, when what really is wrong with us is

Unknown:

that we think we have to measure every morsel and use apps and

Unknown:

all this sort of stuff. So basically, that reached a point

Unknown:

where I was like, there are people in this world who

Unknown:

maintain their weight without punishing themselves depriving

Unknown:

themselves measuring weighing all this sort of stuff. There

Unknown:

must be something else going on here. I'm fairly smart person in

Unknown:

other areas of my life, I kind of get together here. And that

Unknown:

started this for me basically where I quit dieting entirely.

Unknown:

And a lot of people say to me, Well, I've done that there's a

Unknown:

difference between truly quitting dieting, where I'm

Unknown:

like, I'd rather be fat forever, and then deal with this. And

Unknown:

kind of kind of quitting it where you got half a foot and a

Unknown:

half a foot out and you like doing it for a bit until you

Unknown:

don't. So when you're like, I'm not going back to that this is

Unknown:

it. I think you really start to relearn to tune into your body's

Unknown:

wisdom who's like, actually, when I can eat as much cookie

Unknown:

dough as I want. I don't actually like it, it makes me

Unknown:

feel sluggish, I'm tired, I have no energy, rather than I got no

Unknown:

self control. And I'm going to do this until I'm sick of

Unknown:

myself. Like there's there's this clear distinction that

Unknown:

you're really hard for people to get because half of them still

Unknown:

in the next diet. But I wasn't I was like, I'm never doing that

Unknown:

to myself. Again. I cannot physically mentally emotionally

Unknown:

put myself through that. And I don't judge people who do use my

Unknown:

fitness power or apps or heartrate monitors like you're

Unknown:

new to you is one of my philosophies. But I don't want

Unknown:

to be controlled by some external thing telling me what

Unknown:

to do, ever again.

Jen Lang:

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the ownership

Jen Lang:

piece of this program. Because it is owning your own responses

Jen Lang:

and your own story and your own experience. So that you can move

Jen Lang:

forward without being controlled by all these external factors.

Jen Lang:

So giving up your power, so owning your shit is reclaiming

Jen Lang:

your power. Yeah. It's not giving it away to all those

Jen Lang:

external things like the diet program, like the app Like the,

Jen Lang:

you know, maybe even a fitness trainer or nutrition coach who

Jen Lang:

might, you know, you give up, you tell me what to do, just

Jen Lang:

tell me what to do. You know, that's not empowering at all.

Jen Lang:

That's giving up your power.

Jane Stark:

Yeah. And that's what I found. So I trained as a

Jane Stark:

health coach, four years ago. And I did it because I was

Jane Stark:

really interested in the holistic health space. And, and

Jane Stark:

my program was much more mindset based. But what I found through

Jane Stark:

the program, was that, that was the part that didn't resonate

Jane Stark:

for me, I knew deep down and I was like, I can sit and tell

Jane Stark:

people all day long how to eat, you know, make sure you're

Jane Stark:

eating this way, moving your body, all the things, but if

Jane Stark:

they're not truly connected within and connected to

Jane Stark:

themselves, and connected to that deeper place, they're not

Jane Stark:

like, it doesn't matter, it's not going to work, and it

Jane Stark:

frustrated me. And it was exactly what you're saying,

Jane Stark:

Suzanne, where it's like, you know that, throwing that all

Jane Stark:

away and finding our power and, and noticing like one of the one

Jane Stark:

of the things that we learned was an exercise to connect to

Jane Stark:

exactly what you're saying, like all of a sudden, hey, if you eat

Jane Stark:

all that cookie dough, how do you actually feel, you know, or,

Jane Stark:

and on the opposite side to have, like, you know, when you

Jane Stark:

go, I know, you might not want to go out and move your body.

Jane Stark:

But when you go and do it, how do you feel after and starting

Jane Stark:

to actually reconnect those neural pathways to, oh, this

Jane Stark:

makes me feel good, or this gives me pleasure, because the

Jane Stark:

brain is hardwired for pleasure. We're always a pleasure. It's

Jane Stark:

just gone on the fritz when we connect pleasure to sugar, or

Jane Stark:

been hijacked by the food industry. Yeah, that was that

Jane Stark:

that's a big part of what brought me on my journey into

Jane Stark:

the mindset and the coaching piece. And now, moving away from

Jane Stark:

that, I don't even like saying that I'm certified as a health

Jane Stark:

coach, because I feel like people tend to go and think

Jane Stark:

that, yeah, I'm gonna go into nutrition or fitness. And I

Jane Stark:

don't

Unknown:

think that's the thing, when you aren't happy with where

Unknown:

you are, and you are looking for support. There's a difference

Unknown:

between holding your own agency and getting support through

Unknown:

that, and absolving yourself of your own agency and listening

Unknown:

totally to someone else. And you can do this in whatever area of

Unknown:

your life, your health, your business, your relationships,

Unknown:

work. And what can happen is say, you're like, I can't stand

Unknown:

myself anymore, I need to make a change. I'm gonna go and join

Unknown:

this program, dietitian, nutritionist, personal trainer,

Unknown:

whatever flogged me, make me work hard. part of us is happy

Unknown:

for a bit because we're like, we don't need the responsibility of

Unknown:

this anymore. I'm going to give it all to this other person. But

Unknown:

then also, part of us is enslaved Ben, because it's like

Unknown:

that person, this diet, this program says I must do this, and

Unknown:

I must not do this. It's kind of like holding a beach ball

Unknown:

underwater. At first, it's really easy. But then your arms

Unknown:

start to hurt. And as soon as you let go, the ball shoots up

Unknown:

hits you in the face. And part of you is celebrating because

Unknown:

you have all your own agency back and you're not enslaved to

Unknown:

this thing anymore. So part of us like yes, but the other part

Unknown:

is like, I'm still unhappy. So it's like learning to balance

Unknown:

between actually receiving support that is supportive of

Unknown:

you, rather than handing over the reins to say, like you do

Unknown:

this because nobody can walk for you, or exercise for you or even

Unknown:

eat for you. And it's so funny, so many people, that the clients

Unknown:

who are talking about the came to Ujjain would say, If only I

Unknown:

was rich, I could hire someone to follow me around and slap

Unknown:

food out of my hand. And I'm like, seriously? And they're

Unknown:

like, Yeah, I'm like, you would just find their ass when you're

Unknown:

in a total rebellion, you would find them eat all the things and

Unknown:

then hire someone else. Like we're never actually going to

Unknown:

have true change, if we're going to hand that over to somebody

Unknown:

else on our behalf.

Jane Stark:

Yeah, and that's the crux of it right? As long as

Jane Stark:

we're so conditioned to outsource our power,

Unknown:

but then we also outsource our thing, because

Unknown:

we're like, Wait, what is this amazing Tony Ferguson's amazing

Unknown:

Jenny Craig's amazing, and I'm the fat lazy five, who can't

Unknown:

keep my shit together, where it's like, it's no, you, you're

Unknown:

the problem. But you're also the solution. It's both. And then

Unknown:

and then I think that's kind of added to by when we see before

Unknown:

and after posters and success stories and things that we when

Unknown:

we scrolling. We're like, I want that I want to buy that result.

Unknown:

But then if you look at the tiny little asterix, it says results

Unknown:

not typical. Why am I leading with that? Why are they

Unknown:

marketing with the point 1%?

Jen Lang:

Or Individual results may vary? Like yes, yes. It's

Jen Lang:

the same way that they sell investment products. Past

Jen Lang:

performance is no indication of future performance. Well, yeah,

Jen Lang:

because none of us can tell the future but that is always in

Jen Lang:

that little asterisk. You buy this product by this collection

Jen Lang:

of funds, work with this person or buy this herbal product or

Jen Lang:

buy this, like, I don't know, snake oil tin in order to. And

Jen Lang:

again, it's still Another form of disempowerment and not

Jen Lang:

actually taking responsibility in a, in a more holistic way,

Jen Lang:

for all parts of your being. So you might have the agency say I

Jen Lang:

have chosen to do this, I have chosen to give a portion of

Jen Lang:

myself allowed a portion of myself to be supported. However,

Jen Lang:

you've only done like 30% of the thing. It's the you like you

Jen Lang:

talked about, is that equation. Suzanne, you mentioned, can you

Jen Lang:

talk? Can you go into that equation a little bit more

Jen Lang:

around? What you mentioned with the the balance and the equity

Jen Lang:

of that receiving and yeah, peace.

Unknown:

So I have, like, I call it the over giving cycle. So

Unknown:

what happens is, we want to make a change. So we make plans,

Unknown:

whether that be join a diet, join a program, you know, enroll

Unknown:

in a course, we're like, Okay, we're gonna do this thing. And

Unknown:

we're usually really excited when we make the plan or like,

Unknown:

like, oh, okay, I need to buy all these weird ingredients and

Unknown:

go to a fancy supermarket and like, What the hell am I just

Unknown:

this cost? But no, this is gonna be the thing. I've got this. So

Unknown:

we fill our fridge with, you know, all these fresh things.

Unknown:

And we're like, yes. And then somebody asks something for us,

Unknown:

Hey, could you just pick up my kids steal these cookies? Get my

Unknown:

script, like, helped me move house? I don't know. So we ditch

Unknown:

our plans to look after others we over give. This is where we

Unknown:

can't say no, we're like, Oh, it's okay. I'll do it tomorrow.

Unknown:

And then what happens is our fridge full of fresh things is

Unknown:

wilting in the crisper while we go and buy cheap and cheerful to

Unknown:

keep everybody happy. Because we've been so busy helping all

Unknown:

these other people. And then we burn out. And we whether we

Unknown:

admit it to ourselves or not, we can kind of start to feel a bit

Unknown:

resentful. Like oh, she's always asking me to help her never

Unknown:

occurs to us that we could say no. But we start to feel a bit

Unknown:

resentful. Then we over consume in whatever way over eat over

Unknown:

shop. Over work, maybe you know, you sit on the couch binging

Unknown:

Netflix and chips and scrolling like the trifecta. Then we felt

Unknown:

guilty, because we've got all this stuff spent this money on

Unknown:

this program stuffs wilting in the fridge. So then we're like,

Unknown:

Aha, must need to be a new plan. Like it never occurs to us. It's

Unknown:

like, okay, we move to next thing, I wrote an entire book

Unknown:

about this, this cycle, it's like, okay, and then the next

Unknown:

plan is going to be the same thing. And we look for the right

Unknown:

plan or the right to do list the right program, the right thing,

Unknown:

when really the intervention point is actually saying no,

Unknown:

without feeling like a bitch. Could you do this? Like no, and

Unknown:

no being our whole answer, and then divorcing ourselves from

Unknown:

all the over responsibility and the reactions to people seeing

Unknown:

because the thing is, you only were talking at the beginning

Unknown:

about a philosophy over functioning and finding under

Unknown:

functioning people, the thing about people who are under

Unknown:

functioning, if you say no, they will ask somebody else through

Unknown:

evolutionary I know that people who are like, Help me, help me

Unknown:

help me. You're not the end all be all and only person in the

Unknown:

universe to help them they will find another. And I think that's

Unknown:

what's so freeing to be able to say, or if you don't really want

Unknown:

to say no, like, say, for example, says can you help me

Unknown:

move house at 6am? Tomorrow? No, I can help you at 10am on

Unknown:

Saturday. Oh, but the trucks coming? It's not my problem.

Unknown:

Like schemes, we

Jane Stark:

can I ask you a question or go into that a

Jane Stark:

little bit? Can you unpack a little bit of this how to say no

Jane Stark:

without feeling like a bitch piece? Because I think that is

Jane Stark:

such a common feeling for especially women. But men were

Jane Stark:

functioning over giving women Yeah, men to honestly, the whole

Jane Stark:

genders worth. Yes, but I think but I will say women still more

Jane Stark:

than absolutely,

Jen Lang:

because it's expected of us, because it's part of the

Jen Lang:

nice narrative. That's that's modeled for us. And yes, it's so

Jen Lang:

much of social and how we're raised, but it's a Yeah, you're

Jen Lang:

right. Okay, Suzanne, please. Yeah,

Unknown:

so the the simplest thing for any listener, as long

Unknown:

as you're not driving or walking, like literally grab a

Unknown:

piece of paper, you can pause this or grab a piece of paper

Unknown:

and on one side, right? Yes. And on the other side, right? No,

Unknown:

we're on camera. So you can see mine. Here's one I prepared

Unknown:

earlier. And the thing is, this was made by my son. But

Unknown:

basically, when you have your piece of paper, if someone says

Unknown:

Hey, could you what I invite you to do is hold it up with the yes

Unknown:

sign facing them. Like yes, I can do that. And then what's

Unknown:

facing towards you know, so having this little piece of

Unknown:

paper is like life changing? Because when you say yes to

Unknown:

others, what are you saying to yourself, you're saying no. So

Unknown:

it's learning and it's gonna be challenging in the beginning. So

Unknown:

choose your audience don't because the thing is when we

Unknown:

have really loose boundaries, what we can do is go to the

Unknown:

other extreme and have really have tight boundaries. And

Unknown:

that's not healthy either. Because when you say no to

Unknown:

everything and everyone all the time, then you're not open to

Unknown:

receive. So it's learning to have the porous boundaries, a

Unknown:

porous not porous. But like when to say yes and when to say no,

Unknown:

and this will take time. But in the beginning, and then there

Unknown:

will be some pushback, especially for people who have

Unknown:

become used to you being the yes person and the doormat and the

Unknown:

martyr. But for people who come into your life who've never

Unknown:

known you in any other way, they will really appreciate it. Brene

Unknown:

Brown says, And this quote, I swear changed my life. Clear is

Unknown:

kind. So we often think that if we don't say no, or if we just

Unknown:

like, but when we're actually really clear, so say for

Unknown:

example, if you guys are like Suze, we're having a Tupperware

Unknown:

party, would you like to come? In the past, I would have gone I

Unknown:

hate Tupperware, by the way, I would have bought it, because I

Unknown:

would have felt like I wanted to support you, and all this sort

Unknown:

of stuff. So now I'd be like, thank you so much for inviting

Unknown:

me. So you know, not being a bitch thing. I really appreciate

Unknown:

the invite. I don't actually like Tupperware. But if you have

Unknown:

another sort of party, like feel free to invite me because

Unknown:

otherwise doesn't annoy you when someone says oh, yes. And then

Unknown:

they canceled on the day, like I have baked for you. And then the

Unknown:

later on, I find out oh my god, they didn't even like Tupperware

Unknown:

had they just said. Whereas were so worried that people will hate

Unknown:

us because we don't love the same things. But have you know,

Unknown:

a little bit of honesty rather than sure and cancel at the last

Unknown:

minute, which a lot of us who can't say no feel more

Unknown:

comfortable with same for school, like my school has his

Unknown:

fundraisers with chocolate. If I bring chocolate into my house, I

Unknown:

will eat it all. Like, I know this. So instead, I'm like,

Unknown:

here's 50 bucks for the school because I get all of it. Have

Unknown:

fun, rather than giving me like 250 bucks with a chocolate to

Unknown:

sell which you only earn 50 bucks from anyway because they

Unknown:

get such a small commission. The school is happy, I haven't eaten

Unknown:

my weight and chocolate. Everybody's happy. So it's like

Unknown:

learning what's in the in the service of you. It will take

Unknown:

time. It's not magic, okay, I'm gonna say no to everybody all

Unknown:

the time, and dealing with the fallout because sometimes

Unknown:

there's this Lexus. Another example I can think of is, say

Unknown:

you, your parents babysit mine don't live close, but had this

Unknown:

with a client. And she's like, my, I thought I thought I was

Unknown:

helping them because I thought they wanted to spend time with

Unknown:

their grandkids, that basically the parents were getting to a

Unknown:

point where she was asking too much. And they couldn't say no.

Unknown:

She was like, I would have been happy hired a babysitter, but I

Unknown:

thought they wanted this. So this is all about being really

Unknown:

honest and upfront with that communication and learning that,

Unknown:

you know, there's going to be areas that are like, Oh, this

Unknown:

really hurts. But I can move through it all actually is not

Unknown:

that big of a deal. Because yeah, I can hire a babysitter.

Jen Lang:

I want to that's awesome. I love all of this and

Jen Lang:

seeing so much of people in my inner and outer circles who this

Jen Lang:

would be so beautifully supportive and helpful for them.

Jen Lang:

I want to just back up briefly to ask Suzanne to hold up

Jen Lang:

because for our listeners who can't see us on video, I want to

Jen Lang:

ask Suzanne to hold up her guests no sign, and I'm gonna

Jen Lang:

describe it. So she basically has a popsicle stick or like a

Jen Lang:

garden wooden stick. And she's got a big circle that says yes,

Jen Lang:

on one side and glued to the other side is the big circle

Jen Lang:

that says no. And so Jane is going to take a picture asked on

Jen Lang:

her Instagram. Yes. So when you say yes to the other person

Jen Lang:

across from you, the no is facing you. So it's reminding

Jen Lang:

you that you were saying no to yourself? Or what are you saying

Jen Lang:

no to in yourself when you say yes to that other person. And

Jen Lang:

similarly, when you invert it and so when you say no to that

Jen Lang:

other person, you are saying yes to yourself, and what can you

Jen Lang:

say yes to in your life?

Unknown:

Oh, we we are sorry to say we buy the program like we

Unknown:

like invest in a program. This program is gonna be the thing. I

Unknown:

run an online program and it's always fascinating to me how

Unknown:

many people like you know, I didn't watch any of it I didn't

Unknown:

like exactly like this is this is the thing and also the good

Unknown:

girl perfectionist Enos is like we need to watch read, listen to

Unknown:

every single morsel and apply it all or a failure. That used to

Unknown:

be what what if What can you take so whenever I do anything

Unknown:

now I look at the cost of investment. So my program is

Unknown:

1200 I'd be like, what's my $1,200 idea? Like for the life

Unknown:

of me not for this 10 weeks? What's the one thing I'm gonna

Unknown:

take from this? That's gonna be lifelong compounding. And, yeah,

Unknown:

I think it's so and and we do say I'll do it later. And that's

Unknown:

why like, for me personally, I no longer run lifetime access,

Unknown:

because how many of us buy things because I'll get to it

Unknown:

one day, but we never do. Kind of like we have these digital

Unknown:

dragons collecting dust of all these downloads and stuff, but

Unknown:

we've never opened how do we leave it just in case

Jen Lang:

how many Udemy courses Does everybody listening or had

Jen Lang:

some what think like masterclass or masterclass, Gaia TV, all

Jen Lang:

these other Hay House? For example, how many courses and

Jen Lang:

programs? Do you have sitting around that you're like, Oh,

Jen Lang:

I'll watch that later, or I'll rewatch that later. I'll take

Jen Lang:

notes later, do it now people do it now, or goes through, you

Jen Lang:

know, like, actually, I've been doing and I've been talking

Jen Lang:

about NLP, because our last guest was an NLP master trainer.

Jen Lang:

And I actually I have an NLP course on Udemy that I have

Jen Lang:

never opened. And I was like, Oh, I can't go back and take a

Jen Lang:

look at that again. But you're right, you're looking for that

Jen Lang:

next thing, or in my case, it used to be the the qualification

Jen Lang:

was tied to my self worth. I have another qualification. I'm

Jen Lang:

worth more. I have another qualification. I'm worth more.

Jen Lang:

And I'm unplugging from that now. I'm qualified enough. Thank

Jen Lang:

you very much. I'm pretty fucking talented, actually. So

Jen Lang:

you heard it here first? Nope. You heard it here for like the

Jen Lang:

7,000th time probably would have been talking about this on the

Jen Lang:

podcast. Every woman sitting here right now. In fact, I would

Jen Lang:

argue that any every single person listening to this, as we

Jen Lang:

talk about this is pretty fucking talented. But how long?

Jen Lang:

Have you told how? How many times have you told yourself

Jen Lang:

that?

Unknown:

Have I tried to get to the cycle? It's a plan. It's the

Unknown:

next course how many people are in the Warner printer line. And

Unknown:

I don't mean any judgment from that because I was there. And

Unknown:

it's like, when I get the next certificate. When I get to the

Unknown:

next thing, this program has a business building thing. I don't

Unknown:

know enough yet to start a business to run a webinar to you

Unknown:

know, it's like, actually, you just need to ask people to pay

Unknown:

you. That's too scary. Can't do that. Now the qualification?

Jane Stark:

Yeah, that was that cycle, too. Right. And it I

Jane Stark:

mean, it shows up a lot in the entrepreneurial space. But to

Jane Stark:

your point, it's everywhere in anywhere, right? It's in

Jane Stark:

relationships, it's in your relationship to food, it's in

Jane Stark:

your parenting it's in. It's in everything, right? If when I get

Jane Stark:

here, if like, yeah, that not if this, but when I get here, I'll

Jane Stark:

have made it when I get here and the goalpost just keeps moving.

Jane Stark:

And you never get you never get to it.

Unknown:

And to that point for Jen and Jane, for those

Unknown:

listening, I'll explain it on my desk here, I actually keep a

Unknown:

little piece of fool's gold, so you guys can see it, but I

Unknown:

actually have it on my desk, because it's for the if, if

Unknown:

then, like, you know, when I lost the weight, then I'll be

Unknown:

happy when I sign X clients, then I'll be happy when my kids

Unknown:

go to school. And, you know, it's but then you get to the

Unknown:

point. And it's like, oh, I'm still me, and you push the

Unknown:

goalposts back. So this little fool's gold here is just to

Unknown:

remind me that, you know, the time is now. That's why my

Unknown:

programs called Why wait, people are slow. It was about

Unknown:

bodyweight. It's about what are we waiting for? That's why it's

Unknown:

W and the infinities, like your time is now what are we waiting

Unknown:

for? Because now is all we ever have? And then once we have lost

Unknown:

the weight, and we're still not happy? What do we do, we it's

Unknown:

gonna used to be another five kilos, or I need to get toned or

Unknown:

whatever the hell that means. Or in business. Once I have x

Unknown:

clients, I'm still unhappy, I need more. I always have an

Unknown:

offer of 10,000, or 20,000 needs to be 50,000. We're always

Unknown:

pushing the goalposts back. When really, it's like why aren't we

Unknown:

happy today? In this moment right now, rather than once I've

Unknown:

achieved some external thing.

Jen Lang:

Yeah, I heard that in the satisfied conversation. And

Jen Lang:

just for people who are listening, I can't see, um,

Jen Lang:

Suzanne was holding a how many X hexagonal? Yeah, hexagonal,

Jen Lang:

hexagonal piece of pyrite, or fool's gold. And so it sits on

Jen Lang:

her desk. And we will ask her to share a picture of that after.

Jen Lang:

But it's really, actually had a conversation with someone about

Jen Lang:

it this morning, earlier this week, around the satisfied piece

Jen Lang:

where, you know, they're preparing work for a client, and

Jen Lang:

they don't feel that their work is up to snuff, by their

Jen Lang:

perception. But the client has said, we totally trust you. This

Jen Lang:

way, you're amazing. And like they said, We trust you,

Jen Lang:

whatever you come up with will be fine. And still, there's that

Jen Lang:

underlying dissatisfaction. I don't have enough ready to show

Jen Lang:

them yet. What have you done? Well, like, you know, there,

Jen Lang:

there have this narrative around, you know, the client has

Jen Lang:

provided some pieces or some documentation, but not

Jen Lang:

necessarily the Create, the person has to create the content

Jen Lang:

out of what the sorry, there's a really noisy vehicle, you're

Jen Lang:

just gonna hear that on the recording,

Jane Stark:

it's good to say it's hard to mute yourself

Jen Lang:

when I'm talking so you're not just gonna keep

Jen Lang:

talking. But the basically, what I'm getting down to here is that

Jen Lang:

the person felt that, you know, they still have this underlying

Jen Lang:

dissatisfaction. I'm like, Well, why don't you just, it's enough.

Jane Stark:

Yeah, it isn't. Right is the question

Jen Lang:

when is enough enough? And I

Unknown:

think we can create that inadvertently. So I know

Unknown:

before I can think of an example I was moving house, and this

Unknown:

person was doing like fishway report. All right, that sounds

Unknown:

awesome. I don't know anything about Finch way, but I'm about

Unknown:

to set up my house. He's Ronnie, I'd like to report place. And so

Unknown:

I think I paid her in October, I was moving in December,

Unknown:

November, come and get the report, December come, didn't

Unknown:

get the report message her. Oh, it's coming. And I was like, I'm

Unknown:

moving now. So anyway, to cut a very long story short, I

Unknown:

eventually got the report in April of the following year. And

Unknown:

when I chatted to her, like, she was also a friend. And she was

Unknown:

like, it just wasn't enough. I had to keep adding to add to it.

Unknown:

I'm like, what you've actually created like, I am dissatisfied

Unknown:

now and frustrated, because I've already moved my stuff. And I'm

Unknown:

not moving again. Like I've got kids and all this other thing.

Unknown:

But had she handed to me what she had done in December, it

Unknown:

would have been enough. But we ended up creating that in our

Unknown:

own perfectionism is not enough. It's not enough. It's not

Unknown:

enough. Rather than for the people who are hiring us, like I

Unknown:

don't know anything and another person I worked with who was

Unknown:

doing numerology, I know nothing about numerology. So whatever

Unknown:

you give me would have been amazing. But in our own compare

Unknown:

and despair to our own people who were training us or people

Unknown:

who are experts in industry, it's never enough. And then we

Unknown:

create that dissatisfaction because we're not actually

Unknown:

delivering on time. And it's got nothing to do with us not being

Unknown:

enough. It's us delaying the handing overall for the item.

Jane Stark:

Yep, absolutely. Yeah. So

Unknown:

I was gonna say that, like, for my book, The imperfect

Unknown:

book written and published, Trump's the perfect book I never

Unknown:

put out there. Like, there's gonna be things in there that I

Unknown:

read later and go, Oh, but that's what you do second

Unknown:

editions full. So with anything that you're creating, if you're

Unknown:

like, oh, it's not enough, I need another certification. i

Unknown:

It's not perfect to the people that you're serving. It's

Unknown:

enough.

Jane Stark:

That's a really good reminder,

Jen Lang:

to great reminder, I caught myself in it this

Jen Lang:

morning. And I'm not saying like caught isn't a bad like a

Jen Lang:

judgment piece. It was like I was genuinely conscious of where

Jen Lang:

I had been resisting sharing about something. And I was like,

Jen Lang:

Oh, well, that's interesting. And I was able to talk through

Jen Lang:

it with someone, but it was very revealing, again, it was just

Jen Lang:

another layer of where I was keeping myself unintentionally

Jen Lang:

hidden or unintentionally small. Because I thought I was like,

Jen Lang:

Oh, I don't have the right words, or my experience isn't as

Jen Lang:

valuable as someone else's experience. And therefore not is

Jen Lang:

meaningful. Who says that? Who says that all of our experiences

Jen Lang:

are valuable. That's the that's the comparison, itis Gremlin

Jen Lang:

that just takes a different form. So unpicking that is so

Jen Lang:

powerful.

Unknown:

And then I think there's also the fear, like fear

Unknown:

of failure, fear of people's response, I ran a I ran a master

Unknown:

class last week, it was so fun. It was just as I was getting

Unknown:

sick. And I thought I'll be right anyway, had this tech

Unknown:

hiccup I got kicked off, like totally, my computer just

Unknown:

crashed. Two minutes after I started, and all the things I

Unknown:

was telling myself, everyone's gonna be gone, I'm going to come

Unknown:

back to crickets, whatever that was still just chat the bugs of

Unknown:

sales in Zoom Room. So often like that perfection, mystics,

Unknown:

the standards we set for ourselves that are so high, and

Unknown:

it's like people get that life happens. And you know,

Unknown:

technology, we do the best that we can. And when we hold

Unknown:

ourselves to unrealistic standards, it's out. It's all

Unknown:

internal, not the external. And the thing is, if you're gonna be

Unknown:

like, I don't want to work with her because she has zoom issues.

Unknown:

You're gonna probably have that with everybody, because everyone

Unknown:

has tech stuff at some time.

Jen Lang:

posts like that cute little meme that goes around.

Jen Lang:

It's like has zoom meetings or like a sales. Hello. Are you

Jen Lang:

there? Hello, can you hear me? Good. I think I'm feeling

Jen Lang:

something.

Jane Stark:

Oh my gosh, it's so fun. Suzanne, I just want to

Jane Stark:

wind it back a little bit to what you were sort of saying

Jane Stark:

about the beginning is shit, your the way you work with women

Jane Stark:

your journey, somebody who resonates with what you've

Jane Stark:

shared here on the podcast so far, where would you tell them

Jane Stark:

to start?

Unknown:

That's a great question. I guess. It's really

Unknown:

with some self reflection of what are the standards that

Unknown:

you've set for yourself that you're comparing yourself again,

Unknown:

against which you know, perhaps unrealistic, and it's going to

Unknown:

sound like cliche to start with self kindness and self

Unknown:

compassion because people like, Ah, it's really hard to be kind

Unknown:

to ourselves, because we do have these expectations that, you

Unknown:

know, I want it to look like this. But there's this quote,

Unknown:

and I usually remember it, but I can't get it at the moment. But

Unknown:

it's like era glass. I'm probably pronouncing your name

Unknown:

wrong. But it's saying that, you know, in the beginning, when

Unknown:

you're trying to create something, you have really good

Unknown:

taste. That's what gets you into the game. Like I want to have a

Unknown:

business or I want to have a body that looks like this or I

Unknown:

want this is the change that I want to make. And we're so busy

Unknown:

looking at where we want to Be that we lose sight of where we

Unknown:

are. And you can't hate yourself skinny, or, or do all the things

Unknown:

to yourself, like live a life that you love to create a life

Unknown:

that you love. There's, there's a disconnect there. So be saying

Unknown:

to people to look at where you are now with a lens of

Unknown:

compassion with a lens of you know, what can I do today? So if

Unknown:

you're wanting to drop a bunch of weight, eventually you might

Unknown:

want to run or you might want to say drink kale smoothies. I

Unknown:

don't know why you'd want to do that. Because to me, kale tastes

Unknown:

like I'd rather be fat, but you know you, do you. But instead of

Unknown:

going, I'm going to change everything overnight has are

Unknown:

what little tiny baby steps can you take? Like, maybe you do own

Unknown:

running shoes and everything I say it's never to sound

Unknown:

facetious or judgmental. But like, do you have the gear?

Unknown:

Okay, cool. When can you fit it into your schedule? And what are

Unknown:

you going to have to delegate ditch or release to make time

Unknown:

for you? Because often we just try and shove that in amongst

Unknown:

everything else we're already doing. So my actual starting

Unknown:

point would be not to go and buy a program or anything, it'd be

Unknown:

like, Okay, what am I doing that's no longer serving? What

Unknown:

do I need to let go of to make time for me? And it's funny with

Unknown:

my program, why wait, the first week often throws people because

Unknown:

we don't actually do anything. Like usually when you sign up to

Unknown:

do a plan, you know, where's all the things that we're doing week

Unknown:

one, it's like we do nothing. And it's freaks people out. But

Unknown:

it's like, Make space declutter clear make the time for you.

Unknown:

This time, we'll go so fast, rather than adding in something

Unknown:

it's already overpacked. So my first thing would be to people

Unknown:

is to make space for you. As silly as it may sound,

Jen Lang:

it doesn't sound silly at all. That's awesome. And I

Jen Lang:

think you talked about Ira Glass is just the diff difference

Jen Lang:

between having good taste and doing good creative work. Yes,

Jen Lang:

that's the thing. Okay. So we'll post some of the links to that

Jen Lang:

in the show notes. I think there's a YouTube, but it looks

Jen Lang:

like you're,

Unknown:

it's a quote, it will change your life. Because it's

Unknown:

basically when you start something, you've got really

Unknown:

good taste, which is what you've got what gets you into the game.

Unknown:

But then when you start your things kind of shit. Our guest

Unknown:

doesn't say that. That's Susan's, you know. You're

Unknown:

comparing that shitness to how it's going to look eventually.

Unknown:

And that's what gets you out of the game. Whereas if you like

Unknown:

actually, any every master was once a disaster, when you look

Unknown:

at somebody who it's funny, I've been running these webinars

Unknown:

master classes. Now for four years, I had a friend come who

Unknown:

went to my first one, and she came to this one where I got

Unknown:

kicked off. And she was like, holy cow woman confidence in

Unknown:

spades. And I was like, I was feeling so flustered, because I

Unknown:

had been kicked off. And she's like, I forgot she covered the

Unknown:

beginning. So and the thing is, like, what did we do to our

Unknown:

beginning things, we usually delete them, throw them away,

Unknown:

shred them, because they're so bad, keep them. I love watching

Unknown:

my first Facebook Live, but I was totally embarrassed, I have

Unknown:

my child in it. And I breathe into a paper bag, literally for

Unknown:

an hour beforehand before I did it, whereas now I just walk up a

Unknown:

hill with my hair in every direction, don't even know what

Unknown:

I'm talking about. Because that's that's how you get the

Unknown:

progress by the little steps instead of going, Oh, it wasn't

Unknown:

perfect. I'm going to throw it out. You've got tasting whatever

Unknown:

you wanted to create, and you're best at the time gets to get

Unknown:

better. But it doesn't get better if you keep throwing it

Unknown:

out all the time.

Jane Stark:

Absolutely. I that's like a conversation I have with

Jane Stark:

clients all the time is I have to remind them, it's the baby

Jane Stark:

steps. And the baby steps add up to big things. But we can't

Jane Stark:

Yeah, it's not reality to think that we can go from here, you

Jane Stark:

know, A to Z overnight. And

Unknown:

look at all those overnight success stories. Look

Unknown:

at the fine print where it says results not too bad. And also

Unknown:

how many likes to say for example, if you looked at my

Unknown:

very last iteration of weight release, you know, 78 kilos, it

Unknown:

did take three years, but it's kind of like I lost and regained

Unknown:

and lost and regained in excess of 500 kilograms to get to that

Unknown:

point. So the overnight success was 30 years in the making.

Jen Lang:

That's so true, though, for for so many things

Jen Lang:

in life. Were any any sort of overnight, we have this false

Jen Lang:

perception of I've I've been really disliked. We all have our

Jen Lang:

pet peeves about Phrases. I hate the phrase overnight success,

Jen Lang:

because it literally does not exist. No, it does not. There's

Jen Lang:

there is actually if you break down the words, literally. It is

Jen Lang:

a success overnight. But like you said, Suzanne, it's been 30

Jen Lang:

years in the making. So you've just just we've recognized the

Jen Lang:

success overnight. But the whole winding road up to that point

Jen Lang:

was not overnight. That was multiple, multiple years,

Jen Lang:

multiple experiences and all the wisdom and experiences and

Jen Lang:

encounters and creations that get you to that point. That's a

Jen Lang:

turning point, but it's not the turning point. There's many more

Jen Lang:

success points to note and to mark in your trajectory, whether

Jen Lang:

it started You know, five minutes ago or it started seven

Jen Lang:

years ago or longer? You know, I love hearing stories about

Jen Lang:

people who don't hit their creative peak until their 70s or

Jen Lang:

80s or 90s. You know, I think that's just fucking phenomenal.

Jen Lang:

I'm like, yeah, look how much time I have to be even more

Jen Lang:

awesome.

Unknown:

Yes, I was chatting to a lady yesterday, and she said

Unknown:

her grandmother was her inspiration. She ran her first

Unknown:

marathon at 69. Wow, that's incredible. Yeah. Yeah, that's

Unknown:

so often we think, Oh, we're too old too fat to this to that. And

Unknown:

for every two we have, there's somebody who's who's done that.

Unknown:

And it's kind of that that look for those inspirations, or

Unknown:

create it yourself, saying if I want this thing I'm looking at,

Unknown:

like my book came about in a very long way because I was

Unknown:

obsessed with before and after stories, but they were all

Unknown:

before I was fired, and my life was terrible. After I lost the

Unknown:

weight, my life is magical. Do anybody was the only person on

Unknown:

earth who lost and regained and lost to regain? That wasn't a

Unknown:

story and I was like, maybe you're supposed to write this

Unknown:

one yourself.

Jane Stark:

Wow, that's cool.

Jen Lang:

Yeah, that's awesome. So you go ahead

Jane Stark:

soon, I was gonna I gonna ask you mentioned NLP. How

Jane Stark:

do you can you just tell it touch a little bit on how that

Jane Stark:

shows up in your work or how it showed up in your life and has

Jane Stark:

helped you

Unknown:

have so many certifications like when I say

Unknown:

to people about it. I know Pete is one of them. I've got like a

Unknown:

little flip folder. But basically how it showed up in my

Unknown:

life was when I was like googling way back when Yeah, how

Unknown:

to lose weight without dieting, or can I lose weight and still

Unknown:

eat chocolate? I came across a lady who taught NLP funnily

Unknown:

enough, the first person I found I didn't gel with, like I did

Unknown:

NLP. And I was like, this is a watershed. And then I found

Unknown:

another coach like a year later. And I started working with her

Unknown:

she didn't say what her certifications or whatever were,

Unknown:

and then we start to get her I was like, Is this NLP? And she's

Unknown:

like, Yes, I'm like, Oh, I think I'm nothing if not really

Unknown:

honest. Which gets me in trouble sometimes. But anyway, it was

Unknown:

actually the best thing ever. Because with the first person

Unknown:

she was so NLP is amazing. It's the best thing about see the

Unknown:

dots. I saw sparkle. Whereas the second lady was like, perhaps

Unknown:

you kinesthetic. Well, I'm a feeler. So I'm visual. I don't

Unknown:

see anything. And she's like, and I think with anything, when

Unknown:

we don't speak up, and those of us who are over givers don't

Unknown:

want to say I don't see anything. I don't feel anything.

Unknown:

Because we just people, please. Yeah. Feelings. Yeah, yeah. So

Unknown:

when I got to the point was like, No, I'm not that I don't

Unknown:

care or whatever. But like, I'm the client here, and I'm

Unknown:

invested. But not to be blaming, but like, you know, when you're

Unknown:

really honest, and saying, Actually, I don't see anything,

Unknown:

then I can work with you, they can bring the resistant part of

Unknown:

you because often is resistances don't actually want to change.

Unknown:

So yeah, I had this fantastic experience the second time with

Unknown:

NLP. And then she actually is also a trainer. So I went back

Unknown:

and trained with her. But basically, what I love about it

Unknown:

is, you know, we have the conscious mind, the conscious

Unknown:

mind wants to change conscious mind, I'm never gonna eat

Unknown:

chocolate again. And I mean it in this moment. And then two

Unknown:

hours later, I'm eating content, like there's no tomorrow, like,

Unknown:

what the hell happened? The unconscious, the programming,

Unknown:

the patterning, the conditioning, rewiring that. But

Unknown:

you can also do hypnosis, none of these things are going to

Unknown:

work. If on some level, you don't want it. So it's getting

Unknown:

to getting to a level of being really honest with yourself and

Unknown:

saying, you know, like, I don't want it all the time. But like,

Unknown:

what is the gain? For me not changing? What is the gain for

Unknown:

me keep because often, when we have a weight loss goal, what

Unknown:

I'm more interested in with my clients, and I think NLP helps

Unknown:

with what's the goal beyond the goal, because so often it's

Unknown:

like, I want to start a business or I want to leave my

Unknown:

relationship or I want to do this. And we're actually more

Unknown:

afraid of that. So we'll stick with it the easier pain. So it

Unknown:

helps you to get really, really honest with yourself. And yeah,

Unknown:

I've also done so many things. I don't know which one I actually

Unknown:

use now I don't like or this is the modality

Jane Stark:

beautiful. I mean, Jen and I think work in a very

Jane Stark:

similar way, right? We both have a number of certifications to

Jane Stark:

and haven't necessarily gone down the path of niching or

Jane Stark:

whatever we want to call it of like you know, just one modality

Jane Stark:

I think that's the beauty is that there's so many of those

Jane Stark:

these modalities and it's not that one is better than another

Jane Stark:

it's that we're all bio individual people and so some

Jane Stark:

things work better for others and if that

Jen Lang:

isn't the tool that needs absolutely the moment

Jane Stark:

and or like you say the tool and the person together

Jane Stark:

because I've had similar experiences to where I've worked

Jane Stark:

with healers or coaches, and you know, it just doesn't click and

Jane Stark:

then I've gone to somebody else. And it's like same modality but

Jane Stark:

different person delivering it. It's like, oh, this just changed

Jane Stark:

my whole life. Which is, I think,

Unknown:

go ahead. And I think also too, for me, I don't know

Unknown:

if any of the listeners so I will say this sometimes when you

Unknown:

do go to you learn a healing modality or you go to a

Unknown:

practitioner, it can kind of feel overwhelming for me, it was

Unknown:

kind of like, okay, so I've got a journal, and I've got a tap,

Unknown:

I've got to meditate. And I've got to do, there's not enough

Unknown:

hours in the day for all of this. So if that happens to you

Unknown:

like my suggestion, my advice is, all of these things are

Unknown:

tools on your emotional tool belt, like you don't see it,

Unknown:

it's invisible, that you were on your way. So it's like, in this

Unknown:

moment, which one? So like I use all of these things, but I don't

Unknown:

have like people ask them what's your morning routine or

Unknown:

whatever? I don't have a set thing. It's like, which one do I

Unknown:

feel called to use today? I do do a lot of journaling. That's

Unknown:

probably my primary go to and meditating as well. And sound

Unknown:

healing? I've got a couple of Gen soundbar. Yes, you do. I

Unknown:

don't go okay. Because for anything for me personally, if

Unknown:

it becomes a prescription, it reminds me too much of my

Unknown:

dieting history, and then I'm attached to doing it to get the

Unknown:

tick in the box, and not actually to get the healing or

Unknown:

to get what I need from the process in the moment.

Jen Lang:

And that is such gold for people. anybody listening?

Jen Lang:

It's kind of also looking at, why are you choosing that

Jen Lang:

particular tool modality or activity to address this

Jen Lang:

particular issue, emotion or situation? Something that would

Jen Lang:

be something else to dive into? It's like, I want to do this.

Jen Lang:

It's like you talked about the ticking in the box. And you

Jen Lang:

know, I have a morning spiritual practice, Jane and I both have a

Jen Lang:

morning our own spiritual practices. And then we meet

Jen Lang:

Monday to Friday, usually we have a 7am phone call together,

Jen Lang:

where sometimes we'll have a podcast conversation, sometimes

Jen Lang:

we'll talk about, you know, something, something that's

Jen Lang:

happening in our social networks, or sometimes we just

Jen Lang:

sit meditate for 15 to 20 or 30 minutes. And we don't do that to

Jen Lang:

check off a box. We do that because it genuinely provides us

Jen Lang:

a wealth of I don't know, like, it's we didn't do it for two

Jen Lang:

months, and we was very noticeable. We will Oh, wow.

Jen Lang:

Okay, so yeah, finding the tool. And then knowing the reason why

Jen Lang:

your use is

Jane Stark:

powerful, it connects to that pleasure, what

Jane Stark:

we were saying earlier, where your brain you're hardwired to

Jane Stark:

look for pleasure, and the things that feel good. And so

Jane Stark:

we're connected in enough to know that that makes us feel

Jane Stark:

better. And so, and like Jen said, when we stopped doing it,

Jane Stark:

it was like, Oh, this is okay, this is the thing. And I've

Jane Stark:

really found that through my life now where I can see now

Jane Stark:

when things are kind of off, I can be as long as I can

Jane Stark:

cultivate my own awareness and stop and get create the space,

Jane Stark:

as you were saying, Suzanne, then I can usually look and be

Jane Stark:

like, oh, yeah, okay, I've dropped this over here, or I'm

Jane Stark:

not, you know, or look, the junk food is crept back in, or

Jane Stark:

whatever the thing is, I'm not moving my body, and start to

Jane Stark:

like, identify the thing and build up that hat. Like, I've

Jane Stark:

built up that habit enough that I'm like, right, okay, that

Jane Stark:

that, that neural programming is there, I just need to go back

Jane Stark:

into that groove.

Unknown:

I love that frame. Because then it's not ever from

Unknown:

a place of guilt, or shame, or punishment. It's from a place of

Unknown:

actually, I miss this, this thing was serving me in whatever

Unknown:

way. And I think for a lot of people, when they do try healing

Unknown:

modalities or things like this, you know, to create change, and

Unknown:

they'll come to me or whoever else to go, I've done all that.

Unknown:

If you've done it with the intention of the ticking the

Unknown:

box, yeah. Or if you'd like to. So for me, meditation is one of

Unknown:

my hardest to actually stop and slow down. And sometimes I'll

Unknown:

sit there, you know, the 15 minutes and the whole time I'll

Unknown:

be it felt it feels like hours. And other days, it'll be like,

Unknown:

well, the time is gone already. But it's the it's the commitment

Unknown:

to showing up for myself. However, it's coming up in that

Unknown:

day and not making it right or wrong or good or bad. Yes. And

Unknown:

you know, if some days you want to do something else instead, or

Unknown:

you just skip it entirely, but not to guilt and beat yourself

Unknown:

up but to be like I missed that and like you guys were saying

Unknown:

you miss your morning connection that now serves you

Jen Lang:

and provide so much it provided so much rich gold. So

Jen Lang:

it was really what that what having that break taught us was

Jen Lang:

a it helps our business to run more effectively when we have

Jen Lang:

that morning connection time. Be mentally that meditation and

Jen Lang:

that peace helped us really move through our days with our

Jen Lang:

respective lives with more ease and more insight. And so we

Jen Lang:

could connect the next day and be like, Oh, how are you

Jen Lang:

feeling? Well, you know this happened. Oh, and then sometimes

Jen Lang:

we'll do a spontaneous work for and with each other. So we might

Jen Lang:

see something we because we're both human design projectors, so

Jen Lang:

we see for each other where the gaps are where we can't see for

Jen Lang:

ourselves, and then we can go Oh, have you, you know, we'd

Jen Lang:

provide each other the invitation. It's like, are you

Jen Lang:

looking for feedback? Yes, I'm looking for feedback, right? Oh,

Jen Lang:

so this is my perspective. And we do this on Voxer, as well, we

Jen Lang:

were both auditory processors. So we're both like button

Jen Lang:

Illumina. No. Nobody else want to listen to our boxes, because

Jen Lang:

sometimes they're like, 11 to 15 minutes long, and I'll like

Jen Lang:

catch up on the dog walk, and I'll respond back. So the

Jen Lang:

function of those conversations became super valuable when we

Jen Lang:

didn't have them. And we didn't guilt each other for not because

Jen Lang:

there's nothing to guilt, honestly, we were just life

Jen Lang:

happens. Jane was sick. You know, we're like, oh, let's have

Jen Lang:

a pause. But the reality was, we came to really recognize that

Jen Lang:

that ticked a huge box, and provided a tremendous amount of

Jen Lang:

value for each of us in so many facets of our areas of our

Jen Lang:

lives.

Jane Stark:

And I think the reverse, oh, I was just gonna

Jane Stark:

say is true to have, it's important to look and go, What

Jane Stark:

boxes Am I taking that actually aren't working for me? Yes.

Unknown:

I was gonna say, I love that because it's the checking

Unknown:

in, is it serving, it's having a break, and then you're checking

Unknown:

in again. So my, my program used to be a membership, which is was

Unknown:

ongoing. And, you know, in hindsight, or I got to the point

Unknown:

was, like, there's never any time for celebration. There's

Unknown:

never any time for up leveling, it's just kind of like when

Unknown:

people stay until they leave, and they kind of sneak out

Unknown:

quietly or whatever, we don't have this graduation and what

Unknown:

should have been a graduation. And yes, kind of becomes a

Unknown:

funeral if people stay too long. So if you're forcing yourself to

Unknown:

do something, because it takes a box that you think that you

Unknown:

should do externally. And then you're not actually checking in

Unknown:

with yourself and having a season because we have seasons

Unknown:

in nature. And we have seasons in ourselves. So now that's why

Unknown:

it's a 10 week program we have artificial obviously because you

Unknown:

know that season of spring, let's come together summer,

Unknown:

let's do the work, autumn or fall, let's harvest and then

Unknown:

winter, let's break in between. And you know, with whatever tool

Unknown:

it is that we're using, is this still playing a functional role

Unknown:

in my life? Or am I still just doing this to tick the box?

Unknown:

Because I've always done it? And what could I do instead, and

Unknown:

even with certain things like a really random example, but right

Unknown:

now with Coronavirus, my husband can work from home, he can

Unknown:

actually dropped the kids at school because he can have more

Unknown:

than tiebreak at the time. So like how much time that freed up

Unknown:

for me sensational. He gets some more time with the kids. But I

Unknown:

just kept taking him to school because that's what I've always

Unknown:

done. So to look at where in your life are things that you're

Unknown:

doing out of some sense that you always have and what else is

Unknown:

available and then giving it a go and if it doesn't work, but

Unknown:

if it does, what does that free up for you? Because I wouldn't

Unknown:

be having this conversation with you guys right now. Because it's

Unknown:

morning time for me. In the normal school day, I'd be doing

Unknown:

the get ready for school. Yeah.

Jen Lang:

I think that's also that yes, no thing that you held

Jen Lang:

up earlier with this popsicle stick, maybe we'll figure out a

Jen Lang:

way to like make that like a download or an add on or just

Jen Lang:

like yes, no, here's your get your popsicle stick,

Unknown:

you can actually do it with just

Jen Lang:

these two pages. Sticky Note, you

Unknown:

know, like I actually I always have a sticky note with

Unknown:

me when I go to an event or if I'm you know, away or don't have

Unknown:

my popsicle stick. Because it's like where am I saying no to

Unknown:

myself? By saying yes to others. There are there are times could

Unknown:

you do this? I'd love to but there are times where it's like

Unknown:

actually, no, I don't want to and by doing that, it means I

Unknown:

can't listen to the program. Do my meditation go for a walk or

Unknown:

whatever? Or are they up to adapt like you guys talk about

Unknown:

boxer. I love Voxer because I can catch up with my friends

Unknown:

while I'm walking. Yeah, we don't have to be in real time.

Jen Lang:

Yeah, exactly. such it's such a powerful tool. The

Jen Lang:

yet another perfect example. Like I just told Jane before

Jen Lang:

this conversation that I'm in, I'm in a choir called Vox

Jen Lang:

Humana. And we've just been getting back into rehearsals

Jen Lang:

again, we have an upcoming concert, which I'm very excited

Jen Lang:

about. I love the material. And then there's another follow up

Jen Lang:

concert. And with the symphony, and I was you know, two months

Jen Lang:

ago I was like yes, yes, yes. And now I'm like, No,

Jane Stark:

it's funny, right? The spaciousness and when right

Jane Stark:

when you said that right before this con. She told me I said no.

Jane Stark:

And I was like, amazing. What do you say yes to? And it was that

Jane Stark:

was like it's so I was thinking about that when Suzanne held up

Jane Stark:

the sign because I was like Jen and I just had this

Jane Stark:

conversation. Just have the conversation. So she you've

Jane Stark:

opened and you don't know necessarily you're not saying no

Jane Stark:

to that to say yes to something specific right now. But you are

Jane Stark:

by saying no to that you're saying yes to yourself and or

Jane Stark:

Yes to that next thing, and it's yes

Jen Lang:

to spaciousness, that's why you've

Unknown:

created space, because I think how many of us try and

Unknown:

make a change and don't have success because we're just

Unknown:

trying to jam in more into an already overstuffed lifestyle.

Unknown:

So it's like by decluttering what it is that we're doing and

Unknown:

committing to what are we making space for and even for a while

Unknown:

just for rest?

Jen Lang:

Yes, absolutely. No, like, I think part of that

Jen Lang:

decision making gain was that I know, I have a really intensive

Jen Lang:

April and yes, April includes, you know, five days away. So

Jen Lang:

like I do get a vacation, I've got that rest space built in.

Jen Lang:

But I know like I have some big things to deliver, and I'm

Jen Lang:

excited about them. And at the same time, I know that I will

Jen Lang:

want that space in May to reflect and to unsought recover,

Jen Lang:

because it's not really, but I want that space in me to balance

Jen Lang:

the output in April,

Unknown:

big capacity backup, because you know, when we give

Unknown:

and give and give that our capacity bank is depleted, and

Unknown:

that needs to be replenished. And that's something that we

Unknown:

don't often look at, because we think I'll just keep going just

Unknown:

keep soldiering on completely. Yeah.

Jane Stark:

Oh, so it's been such a great conversation. Yes.

Jane Stark:

Where Suzanne, where can our listeners find you? And can you

Jane Stark:

share a little bit more about your why weight program?

Unknown:

So certainly, so they can find me at my website,

Unknown:

Suzanne kohlberg.com, which I know you will link because I'll

Unknown:

be fascinated if anybody can find it. So my way weight

Unknown:

program, it enrolls four times a year, it's seasonal. So each

Unknown:

round has all four seasons. So it's kind of fascinating. And

Unknown:

it's about. So we have it's called Why wait, but it's not

Unknown:

about physical weight on your body. It's like, what are we

Unknown:

waiting for? What are we putting off? What are we going to do

Unknown:

once we've achieved this? And how can we start today, and I

Unknown:

talk about the full body, so physical, mental, emotional,

Unknown:

energetic or spiritual. Because our thoughts and our feelings,

Unknown:

so often we keep changing our action, hoping for a different

Unknown:

result back to that over giving cycle. But if on some level, you

Unknown:

think this is never going to work, doesn't matter what you

Unknown:

do, you're going to create the results. It's about shifting

Unknown:

those thoughts, shifting those beliefs, learning how to

Unknown:

actually feel our feelings, which so many of us don't, we

Unknown:

numb them out with food or working or you know, something

Unknown:

else, like exercising, how to process a feeling. And it's 10

Unknown:

weeks long. There is a lot in there. So my invitation for

Unknown:

everyone is to pick your intention, because your

Unknown:

intention plus attention equals an outcome. And then if your so

Unknown:

called, there is future rounds. So the first round is $1,200.

Unknown:

Australian, and then I have an alumni rate. So people can take

Unknown:

a round off or many rounds and they come back. It's just it's a

Unknown:

fantastic community because it's a place where you can actually

Unknown:

own what's going on without guilt without shame without Oh,

Unknown:

have you tried this? Because how often can you not actually share

Unknown:

what's happening without somebody trying to fix it for

Unknown:

you, but a place to be seen, to be witnessed and to share what's

Unknown:

happening? And yeah, it's absolutely it's, it's been

Unknown:

running for in this iteration a year. But altogether three

Unknown:

years, we've had some people who have been there the whole time,

Unknown:

some people who come and go, and whatever happens, you can show

Unknown:

up, you can be you and create, you know, the next version of

Unknown:

you in a container in a space where people can just be honest,

Unknown:

and yeah, I absolutely love it. That's

Unknown:

awesome. Amazing. Thank

Jen Lang:

you. We will link to the show notes. And we'll put

Jen Lang:

the link to the website in there. Definitely Suzanne

Jen Lang:

kullberg.com. All right. Yes. Go visit.

Jane Stark:

Yeah, download the first two chapters of her book.

Jen Lang:

The beginning is shit. Because you know, frankly, for

Jen Lang:

everybody, the beginning is shit. Yeah.

Unknown:

Anything. We offer anything we give up too soon. We

Unknown:

like oh, it's not perfect straightaway, what is imagined

Unknown:

if we were all babies, and like I couldn't walk immediately. So

Unknown:

I'm just not going to bother pulling ourselves up. Keep

Unknown:

falling down a tree, you build the strength to be able to keep

Unknown:

going.

Jane Stark:

Thank you. It's a metaphor. Such a good reminder

Jane Stark:

for all of us. I needed to hear that today. So thank you.

Unknown:

Thank you both.

Jen Lang:

Great reminder. Thank you, Suzanne, for joining us

Jen Lang:

today. We are so excited to have you back again, when your next

Jen Lang:

book comes out we which we haven't even talked about. But

Jen Lang:

we you will hear from all of us again. And is there a timeline

Jen Lang:

for that next book yet or

Unknown:

so now I actually have to start cracking on I've got an

Unknown:

outline. That's as far as I've gotten.

Jen Lang:

So we will have Suzanne back on no halos here.

Jen Lang:

And I've got some snippets of wisdom. I think we'll just wrap

Jen Lang:

it up here. Anything else to share? We're good. Thanks.

Jen Lang:

Amazing. Thanks, everybody. Have an awesome day. And we will see

Jen Lang:

you next time. Hopefully you will hear us next time. On no

Jen Lang:

halos here. Take care fi thanks for joining us for these

Jen Lang:

conscious combos. If you're ready to dive deeper, head on

Jen Lang:

over to Dr Jenn and jane.com to continue the conversation.

Jane Stark:

If you love this episode, please take a moment to

Jane Stark:

share it with your friends or your network and leave us a

Jane Stark:

review by going to Apple podcasts. Find us on Instagram

Jane Stark:

at we are Jen and Jane and let us know what you enjoy and what

Jane Stark:

you would like to see more of. We'd love to hear from you.

Show artwork for No Halos Here

About the Podcast

No Halos Here
Conscious Convos for an Elevated World
Are you looking for more than a ‘surface’ conversation about topics like spirituality, the self-help industry, or health & wellbeing? Maybe you’re curious about exploring some of your own gifts or health challenges and want to know if others have experienced what you have. What about the intersection of entrepreneurship, family life, and self-care?

Join Jen Lang and Jane Stark, two heart-centred business owners, as they explore the shadowed edges of life, the universe, and beyond through honest and thought-provoking conversations. No topic is off-limits and is approached with an open heart and mind, active listening, and compelling guests. We may not have all the answers, but we know that the way forward is through these vulnerable conversations.

Listen in as we unite physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual energies into a powerful show to lead, heal, and inspire you.

About your host

Profile picture for Jane Stark Jen Lang

Jane Stark Jen Lang

Jane Stark - Passionate about energetic alignment and living life from a place of personal power, Jane is a heart-centred leader, certified health and life coach, and marketing strategist. She leads others to play bigger and feel lighter by helping them see and navigate their blocks and connect more deeply with themselves.

Jen Lang - Jen believes in the power and wisdom of women’s voices. She’s a guide for women who want to tune into and align their inner voice so their outer voice can shine; uniting physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual energies into a powerful voice ready to share your message.